Tier 1 barbarian units scale extremely well

[Pappus]

It is a very solid mix that they have going on and you would be well advised to add cannibal variant on top so you can feast on the fallen and slain.

I am not sure how non-chaos is even remotely supposed to keep up with this. Every 12 fights is another stack going forward and it goes quick if you have a few infestations around that send miniscule attacks towards you.

In the end you get a 50% chance to get a T1/2 unit for free after a successful battle and also claim resources like gold/mana/food.

Especially with early stuff like demonkin, melee weapon upgrades, primal strike, cannibalism, poison, strengthened. T2 or T3 units cost way too much to cost effectively battle this.

Only saving grace is that only 3 stacks can go into battle at once

Edit: The warrior is just a machine with a 90% stun shiedlbash and defensive mode afterwards.

[Lampros]

Is it just 3 stacks max per side, then?

[yuzhonglu]

Don't underestimate skirms. The sunder armor works really well with hordes of tier 1 units.

[Pappus]

Originally posted by Lampros:

Is it just 3 stacks max per side, then?

Yes 3 is max unless it somehow changes later, but plenty of times did I bring 4 and only 3 went in

[Lordofriva]

Originally posted by Lampros:

Is it just 3 stacks max per side, then?

this, it is pretty easy to field three decent stacks and since that is the limit, the horde bonus falls of somewhat when not directly rushed.

It's still nice to have a combat ready army in no time, especially with golden horde, but it's still only T1 then.

[Darkfireslide]

Order gets a ton of units from the Rally of Lieges, Materium gets crazy production bonuses, Astral gets better summoning, and Nature gets more food = more pops = more economy. It's probably a strong 1v1 rush strat, but in wars of attrition I think the other affinities have an advantage

[Lampros]

Originally posted by Pappus:

Originally posted by Lampros:

Is it just 3 stacks max per side, then?

Yes 3 is max unless it somehow changes later, but plenty of times did I bring 4 and only 3 went in

Hmm, so essentially the number of units that can participate in combat on one side got reduced yet again - despite representations to the contrary. Sigh.

[Pappus]

Originally posted by Paladin Dark:

Order gets a ton of units from the Rally of Lieges, Materium gets crazy production bonuses, Astral gets better summoning, and Nature gets more food = more pops = more economy. It's probably a strong 1v1 rush strat, but in wars of attrition I think the other affinities have an advantage

Production bonus doesn't help you producing units. That is draft and the bonus for that is also on the barbarians/chaos.

The point is that you get free units as barbs and there is stuff in the trees (some in general) where you can get free T1 units. Just that the barbarian ones are leagues better.

This also translates into many different advantages like clearing high level infestations faster. While you are working on your second stack the barbarian has it cleared with 3 stacks and can afford losses because they will be replaced by the battle itself with free spawned units. The infestiation giving another unit on top and by turn 20 the barbarian is farming underground, overworld and everything else.

We could also take the example of summoning units like you said with the mystic. Not a problem the thing is that this decreases your mana income so it will stall after a few units. The barbs summon T1 units (which still are the best in category or at least on par) and now they pay reduced upkeep on those.

No I think mystic also gets reduced upkeep I am not sure, but those magic beasts will now be subject to a different kind of enhancement. The barb units aren't. The unit that doesn't profit is the war shaman which is there for buffing and also only gets a single attack anyhow so he wouldn't even benefit that much from any buff.

Edit: Also rally of league... by the time you have it the barbs have vassalized more free cities through brute force. By turn 20 they have more stacks than the game allows you to put into battle at once.

[Eldrin]

Originally posted by Pappus:

Originally posted by Paladin Dark:

Order gets a ton of units from the Rally of Lieges, Materium gets crazy production bonuses, Astral gets better summoning, and Nature gets more food = more pops = more economy. It's probably a strong 1v1 rush strat, but in wars of attrition I think the other affinities have an advantage

Production bonus doesn't help you producing units. That is draft and the bonus for that is also on the barbarians/chaos.

The point is that you get free units as barbs and there is stuff in the trees (some in general) where you can get free T1 units. Just that the barbarian ones are leagues better.

This also translates into many different advantages like clearing high level infestations faster. While you are working on your second stack the barbarian has it cleared with 3 stacks and can afford losses because they will be replaced by the battle itself with free spawned units. The infestiation giving another unit on top and by turn 20 the barbarian is farming underground, overworld and everything else.

We could also take the example of summoning units like you said with the mystic. Not a problem the thing is that this decreases your mana income so it will stall after a few units. The barbs summon T1 units (which still are the best in category or at least on par) and now they pay reduced upkeep on those.

No I think mystic also gets reduced upkeep I am not sure, but those magic beasts will now be subject to a different kind of enhancement. The barb units aren't. The unit that doesn't profit is the war shaman which is there for buffing and also only gets a single attack anyhow so he wouldn't even benefit that much from any buff.

Edit: Also rally of league... by the time you have it the barbs have vassalized more free cities through brute force. By turn 20 they have more stacks than the game allows you to put into battle at once.

You dont really take into account what abilities the other faction units have. I started with the Mystic culture but realized i lost so started another. I took the feudal at first i was wtf is this crap everything feels weak and inferior, until later i realized their strengths are elsewhere. Namely their bannermen are probably their best unit. Used them way into the late game. Where as with mystics their spellshield were very powerful with their AOE stun. (never got to see the mystic tier 3 unit)

The culture abilities and units are actually very different.

[Pappus]

Originally posted by Eldrin:

Originally posted by Pappus:

snip

You dont really take into account what abilities the other faction units have. I started with the Mystic culture but realized i lost so started another. I took the feudal at first i was wtf is this crap everything feels weak and inferior, until later i realized their strengths are elsewhere. Namely their bannermen are probably their best unit. Used them way into the late game. Where as with mystics their spellshield were very powerful with their AOE stun. (never got to see the mystic tier 3 unit)

The culture abilities and units are actually very different.

Of course they play different. The point is that it makes no difference if you are beat to a pulp before.

[yuzhonglu]

It's not barbs that's OP. It's being Chaos that's OP.

[Pappus]

Originally posted by yuzhonglu:

It's not barbs that's OP. It's being Chaos that's OP.

Chaos is definitely less OP if you don't sport tier 1 units that might as well be T2 or even 3

[twinslive]

Originally posted by Paladin Dark:

Order gets a ton of units from the Rally of Lieges, Materium gets crazy production bonuses, Astral gets better summoning, and Nature gets more food = more pops = more economy. It's probably a strong 1v1 rush strat, but in wars of attrition I think the other affinities have an advantage

After trying out all the types imo nature is the strongest. especially mid-late game where every province = troops. Then you can spawn a forest and then turn a forest into an army of tier 1-3 units, for almost nothing at all. I hit a point where I had 20 armies, had my spells queued up to be able to just spawn more wherever I needed if I wanted to, and was still getting +300 of each resource per turn regardless of the massive upkeep on my units + buff/transformation spells on that many units. If you want a "hordes of troops" power fantasy Nature is the way to go imo.

[PeaceMaker]

Originally posted by Pappus:

It is a very solid mix that they have going on and you would be well advised to add cannibal variant on top so you can feast on the fallen and slain.

I am not sure how non-chaos is even remotely supposed to keep up with this. Every 12 fights is another stack going forward and it goes quick if you have a few infestations around that send miniscule attacks towards you.

In the end you get a 50% chance to get a T1/2 unit for free after a successful battle and also claim resources like gold/mana/food.

Especially with early stuff like demonkin, melee weapon upgrades, primal strike, cannibalism, poison, strengthened. T2 or T3 units cost way too much to cost effectively battle this.

Only saving grace is that only 3 stacks can go into battle at once

Edit: The warrior is just a machine with a 90% stun shiedlbash and defensive mode afterwards.

I didn't take cannibal simply on principle. I don't care how advantageous it is. My troops will not sink to that level!

Warrior stun shield bash is very, very useful for stopping a dangerous enemy unit from acting first. Also love those Berserkers.

[Pappus]

Originally posted by twinslive:

Originally posted by Paladin Dark:

Order gets a ton of units from the Rally of Lieges, Materium gets crazy production bonuses, Astral gets better summoning, and Nature gets more food = more pops = more economy. It's probably a strong 1v1 rush strat, but in wars of attrition I think the other affinities have an advantage

After trying out all the types imo nature is the strongest. especially mid-late game where every province = troops. Then you can spawn a forest and then turn a forest into an army of tier 1-3 units, for almost nothing at all. I hit a point where I had 20 armies, had my spells queued up to be able to just spawn more wherever I needed if I wanted to, and was still getting +300 of each resource per turn regardless of the massive upkeep on my units + buff/transformation spells on that many units. If you want a "hordes of troops" power fantasy Nature is the way to go imo.

Tier 4 tomes certainly aren't midgame.