Races beeing only cosmetic is not a good idea

[Sipher]

What is your opinion about the current races? While they look really cool and i really love that you can highly customise your starting race with the help of magic and transform them into totally different beeings...it still feels honestly quite dissapointing that the races have absolutly no differences from each other!

In my opinion it would have been so much cooler if the game would have been a bit more faithful to the common fantasy lore, so that orcs at the start would have the better fighters while elfs would have the better mages and archers at the start, and then allow to customise the races from this start towards what ever you want, so that you can have almost immortal and tanky elves in the lategame if you enchance them enough with the right magic, or a magearmy of fireball throwing orcs when you researched enough evocation, because by doing so, it would feel like an role-play achievement that you have done!

But forcing every single race to play exactly the same even including their units with the exception of tiny perks that you woundt realise that they exist after the first 10 turns, at least for me kills my sense of exploration and curiosity of playing a different race (and expecting to see something new/play a different playstyle) Such a wasted potential in my opinion.

[Midas]

Автор сообщения: Flickmann

Автор сообщения: Flushing

New DLC already available less than 2 weeks from now. I can't wait fot it.

Preview below of the following tears:

Them: Oh no, there are no Draconian Anymore, because there is a Transformation. So the fantasy construct of Draconians doesn't exist anymore, ruined, worse game ever.

Me: But, Draconians are a Fantasy Construct. In AoW2, explained that they are a Fabricated Race created with Magic, similar to the Dragonlance series.

So, I'm sure we'll have a lore explanation. In short, they were created from dragon eggs, dragon blood, return of dragon magic to Athla, return of Dragon Kings, etc.. So, there must be a link to Dragons and Dragonkin in the DLC.

Them: But, if everyone can have a Draconian feel, nothing is unique.

Me: You're the one who chooses the rules of the game, like any DM setting a scenario. Make your lizardmen Draconian, via magic, so you can "feel the uniqueness." I'll make Orc dragonkin.

Them: But, I cannot control randomized AI leaders, after I set them to random. We must remove choice.

Me: uhhh why set anything to random if you're that OCD.

Them: Because I want to control what can and cannot be randomized via the random option.

Me: hold on, you been saying the same thing since launch and bought the DLC anyway. You knew this going into your purchase.

Them: No, I believed that they would overhaul the game in under 30 days, with a redesign, based on steam comments. I should have known because there is a "conspiracy" at Paradox HQ!

Me: Ok Kanye. I mean Ye. You must be a genius because my small brain is starting to hurt.

Glad we just preempted all of this before the 1000post waaagh thread drops. Please don't "Hate Purchase" the DLC only to put the rest of us through hell on the community forums..

The things people say to themselves to justify their purchases, good lord. Just admit you regret buying the game and move on.

Keep projecting.

[Flushing]

Автор сообщения: Grandfather Nurgle

Автор сообщения: Flushing

New DLC already available less than 2 weeks from now. I can't wait fot it.

Preview below of the following tears:

Them: Oh no, there are no Draconian Anymore, because there is a Transformation. So the fantasy construct of Draconians doesn't exist anymore, ruined, worse game ever.

Me: But, Draconians are a Fantasy Construct. In AoW2, explained that they are a Fabricated Race created with Magic, similar to the Dragonlance series.

So, I'm sure we'll have a lore explanation. In short, they were created from dragon eggs, dragon blood, return of dragon magic to Athla, return of Dragon Kings, etc.. So, there must be a link to Dragons and Dragonkin in the DLC.

Them: But, if everyone can have a Draconian feel, nothing is unique.

Me: You're the one who chooses the rules of the game, like any DM setting a scenario. Make your lizardmen Draconian, via magic, so you can "feel the uniqueness." I'll make Orc dragonkin.

Them: But, I cannot control randomized AI leaders, after I set them to random. We must remove choice.

Me: uhhh why set anything to random if you're that OCD.

Them: Because I want to control what can and cannot be randomized via the random option.

Me: hold on, you been saying the same thing since launch and bought the DLC anyway. You knew this going into your purchase.

Them: No, I believed that they would overhaul the game in under 30 days, with a redesign, based on steam comments. I should have known because there is a "conspiracy" at Paradox HQ!

Me: Ok Kanye. I mean Ye. You must be a genius because my small brain is starting to hurt.

Glad we just preempted all of this before the 1000post waaagh thread drops. Please don't "Hate Purchase" the DLC only to put the rest of us through hell on the community forums..

One small thing: The draconians weren't a fabricated race. They were literally just dragons made smol, humanoid and faster-reporducing via magic so they could better handle human encroachment on their territory after the first game. Its part of why Dragons in Athla were so rare lore-wise in the following games. They didn't die out, they just got tinier.

Here we seem to be taking a page out of D&D's playbook and using draconic magic and experimentation to make something akin to the D&D Dragonborn.

TL;DR for non-nerds - Draconians in Age of Wonders 1, 2, Shadow Magic and 3 were literally just dragons. Here they seem to be the result of dragon magic. Its only in this game that we do the whole Dragonlance thing.

They were created exactly as I said:

When the Human race rose to power, the race of dragons, especially the young dragons, suffered a terrible price. Among the Humans, dragons were more valuable dead than alive, hunted for glory, sport, money, and to mix in their foul-smelling potions. With no regard to the intelligent creatures that dragons might become in time, the humans devastated the dragon kin.

The Dragons turned to Wizards of Evermore, using powerful magic to create a new breed of followers. They sacrificed their remaining young for the power to keep the humans at bay. The dragons unleashed the powers in their eggs, vowing that once they achieved supremacy they would reform themselves into ancient dragonkind again.

Because of their magical origin, Draconians are insightful in regards to its research and the skills surrounding wizardry.

Draconians share many of the same faults as humanity. With savage ambition they plot for power in the world. For this reason, Humans and draconian often join together in alliance. Draconians favor the lands of their dragon kin, including the lava beds, and wastelands of ash that birthed their parents.

Most draconians employ only crude tools, preferring to use their natural powers. They do build siege weapons and buildings, but in the fashion of dragons. When they gather together a sufficient population they may even flatter dragons to join their nation. (empahsis added)

link for referance (it's right from in game race description from AoW2):
https://aow2.heavengames.com/gameinfo/races/

There Age of Wonders 2 origin is near identical to the Dragonlance origin, except the eggs weren't taken against the Dragon's will.

But, the fundamental lore is Wizards + Magic + Dragons = Draconians. So as we are seeing both Dragon Lords/Kings as Leaders and a Tome that provides for the transformation, there is already plot armor supporting it.

To the extent Draconians as a separate race do or do not exist (I have heard contrary things, such as, what people think are Draconians are Lizardmen, and or that they are one in the same) it will be interesting lore.

[jasons073]

Races being cosmetic wouldn't be as big a deal to me if there were more body/mind traits that had a significant impact on gameplay. But none of the default ones really have that, and while some are unlocked through the pantheon system, there aren't nearly as many as I would like.

It looks like a few, more impactful traits are being included in the Dragon dlc, thankfully, but they should keep adding them to spice things up.

[Midas]

Автор сообщения: jasons073

Races being cosmetic wouldn't be as big a deal to me if there were more body/mind traits that had a significant impact on gameplay. But none of the default ones really have that, and while some are unlocked through the pantheon system, there aren't nearly as many as I would like.

It looks like a few, more impactful traits are being included in the Dragon dlc, thankfully, but they should keep adding them to spice things up.

I don't think body/mind traits are SUPPOSED to have a massive impact. Society traits seem to be the big defining ones. Physical form is less impactful.

[Picklefather Nurgle]

Автор сообщения: Flushing

There Age of Wonders 2 origin is near identical to the Dragonlance origin, except the eggs weren't taken against the Dragon's will.

But, the fundamental lore is Wizards + Magic + Dragons = Draconians. So as we are seeing both Dragon Lords/Kings as Leaders and a Tome that provides for the transformation, there is already plot armor supporting it.

To the extent Draconians as a separate race do or do not exist (I have heard contrary things, such as, what people think are Draconians are Lizardmen, and or that they are one in the same) it will be interesting lore.

Ah, gotcha. Wasn't sure how Draconians in Dragonlance came to be since there's like 2 different versions I've seen online. But yeah, Draconians in AoW's have always been their own race of transformed dragons.

In this game we seem to be taking lizardmen (and possibly non-lizard races if the transformation is applicable to everyone) and just injecting draconic traits into them. Which is bit different as far as how this has worked in the series before now.

In the past, on Athla, Lizardmen were their own separate race of swamp-dwellers who just stuck to themselves.

[Malaficus Shaikan]

Автор сообщения: Grandfather Nurgle

In the past, on Athla, Lizardmen were their own separate race of swamp-dwellers who just stuck to themselves.

And got genocided for being to hard to balance :sadface:

[Malaficus Shaikan]

Автор сообщения: Flushing

New DLC already available less than 2 weeks from now. I can't wait fot it.

Preview below of the following tears:

Them: Oh no, there are no Draconian Anymore, because there is a Transformation. So the fantasy construct of Draconians doesn't exist anymore, ruined, worse game ever.

Me: But, Draconians are a Fantasy Construct. In AoW2, explained that they are a Fabricated Race created with Magic, similar to the Dragonlance series.

So, I'm sure we'll have a lore explanation. In short, they were created from dragon eggs, dragon blood, return of dragon magic to Athla, return of Dragon Kings, etc.. So, there must be a link to Dragons and Dragonkin in the DLC.

Them: But, if everyone can have a Draconian feel, nothing is unique.

Me: You're the one who chooses the rules of the game, like any DM setting a scenario. Make your lizardmen Draconian, via magic, so you can "feel the uniqueness." I'll make Orc dragonkin.

Them: But, I cannot control randomized AI leaders, after I set them to random. We must remove choice.

Me: uhhh why set anything to random if you're that OCD.

Them: Because I want to control what can and cannot be randomized via the random option.

Me: hold on, you been saying the same thing since launch and bought the DLC anyway. You knew this going into your purchase.

Them: No, I believed that they would overhaul the game in under 30 days, with a redesign, based on steam comments. I should have known because there is a "conspiracy" at Paradox HQ!

Me: Ok Kanye. I mean Ye. You must be a genius because my small brain is starting to hurt.

Glad we just preempted all of this before the 1000post waaagh thread drops. Please don't "Hate Purchase" the DLC only to put the rest of us through hell on the community forums..

I am more interesting too see if draconians will accauly get there flamer units or be reduced to using culture weapons.

[SBA77]

Автор сообщения: Malaficus Shaikan

Автор сообщения: Grandfather Nurgle

In the past, on Athla, Lizardmen were their own separate race of swamp-dwellers who just stuck to themselves.

And got genocided for being to hard to balance :sadface:

Really, that's why they actually killed them off? I thought it was because they thought draconians would be cooler and more unique and they didn't want to have two similar reptilian races. Even though they do tend to be among favorites I have to admit that lizardmen are kind of generic in fantasy settings and you do see them quite often.

[Midas]

Автор сообщения: Malaficus Shaikan

Автор сообщения: Flushing

New DLC already available less than 2 weeks from now. I can't wait fot it.

Preview below of the following tears:

Them: Oh no, there are no Draconian Anymore, because there is a Transformation. So the fantasy construct of Draconians doesn't exist anymore, ruined, worse game ever.

Me: But, Draconians are a Fantasy Construct. In AoW2, explained that they are a Fabricated Race created with Magic, similar to the Dragonlance series.

So, I'm sure we'll have a lore explanation. In short, they were created from dragon eggs, dragon blood, return of dragon magic to Athla, return of Dragon Kings, etc.. So, there must be a link to Dragons and Dragonkin in the DLC.

Them: But, if everyone can have a Draconian feel, nothing is unique.

Me: You're the one who chooses the rules of the game, like any DM setting a scenario. Make your lizardmen Draconian, via magic, so you can "feel the uniqueness." I'll make Orc dragonkin.

Them: But, I cannot control randomized AI leaders, after I set them to random. We must remove choice.

Me: uhhh why set anything to random if you're that OCD.

Them: Because I want to control what can and cannot be randomized via the random option.

Me: hold on, you been saying the same thing since launch and bought the DLC anyway. You knew this going into your purchase.

Them: No, I believed that they would overhaul the game in under 30 days, with a redesign, based on steam comments. I should have known because there is a "conspiracy" at Paradox HQ!

Me: Ok Kanye. I mean Ye. You must be a genius because my small brain is starting to hurt.

Glad we just preempted all of this before the 1000post waaagh thread drops. Please don't "Hate Purchase" the DLC only to put the rest of us through hell on the community forums..

I am more interesting too see if draconians will accauly get there flamer units or be reduced to using culture weapons.

Lizardmen will almost definitely use cultural weapons. Whether or not 'draconians' get a fire attack will depend on what's in the tome of dragons. The tome of evolution doesn't seem to have anything for it.

[Malaficus Shaikan]

Автор сообщения: SBA77

Автор сообщения: Malaficus Shaikan

And got genocided for being to hard to balance :sadface:

Really, that's why they actually killed them off? I thought it was because they draconians would be cooler and more unique and they didn't want to have two similar reptilian races. Even though they do tend to be among favorites I have to admit that lizardmen are kind of generic in fantasy settings and you do see them quite often.

Yeah.
From what i read(I cannot find it at the moment)
The lizards ability to travel across the water made them to hard to balance.
And i remind you they confessed that one of the reasons they did away with race's was because it was easier to balance.

Triumph Studios has been removing features of past games since age of wonders 2.
Cannot make the ai use boats?
Units turning into boats.
Spells are able to destroy armies(As they shoud)
Lets nerf spellcasters by limiting them to 1 spell per turn and removing 9 hex strategy map spells.

Age of wonders serries serves as an exelent example of the newer the game the weaker the magic.

Age of wonders 2 shadow magic had:
Wood Elves.
Dark Elves.
Humans.
Dwarves.
Halfings.
Goblins.
Orcs.
Tigrans.
Frostlings.
Archons.
Undead.
Those glowly guys.
Shadow demons.
Nomads.
Each with there own selection of unique units.
Then you had 6 magic schools(7 is you count cosmos aka mixing schools)
With powerfull spells like wetland(everything but cities turn into sea over time) explode forge(damage to enemies in cities and disable building for 2 turns)
Divine/death storm.
9 hexes of pure pain.
Poison cloud.
Starts on 1 hex and spreads to other hexes over time doing posion damage.

Age of wonders 3 was 5 steps forward 2 steps back.
It added suchs lovely things as mana bombs, ghouls, dread reaper lose 50 hp or die ability.
Tropical, temperate, frozen, blighted, etc empire.
Plague aka steal pops from city and add them to your own.

A big part of why age of wonders 4 feels so insulting is that it got nothing left of what was once the staple of the serries.
Powerfull summons, spells and vast amount unique units and races.
Culture are lacking, spells have been nerfed into the grounds and you are limited to 3vs3 instead of the 9 hex serounding enemy we had for decades.

Ow right you asked i question and i am ranting.
Sorry.
In short a race that can travel over water gives them a massive advantage....
It is probley why flying units need to turn into boats in aow4.

[Malaficus Shaikan]

Автор сообщения: Midas

Автор сообщения: Malaficus Shaikan

I am more interesting too see if draconians will accauly get there flamer units or be reduced to using culture weapons.

Lizardmen will almost definitely use cultural weapons. Whether or not 'draconians' get a fire attack will depend on what's in the tome of dragons. The tome of evolution doesn't seem to have anything for it.

Dispointing but expected.

[SBA77]

Автор сообщения: Midas

Автор сообщения: Malaficus Shaikan

I am more interesting too see if draconians will accauly get there flamer units or be reduced to using culture weapons.

Lizardmen will almost definitely use cultural weapons. Whether or not 'draconians' get a fire attack will depend on what's in the tome of dragons. The tome of evolution doesn't seem to have anything for it.

There are already screenshots of the Draconians:
https://cdn.akamai.steamstatic.com/steam/apps/2367860/ss_ab7e5f186244c6b9257e0d1b4d44ff6048da9de3.jpg?t=1686231766

https://images.ctfassets.net/u73tyf0fa8v1/28sRI4836YvmwxX8Adr9KF/4ec25afd6a470a53a5088b1720e9b5de/image__41_.jpg?w=3840&q=75

Looks like they just become re-categorized as dragon units , gain regen, and gain fire immunity.

[XartaX]

Автор сообщения: Malaficus Shaikan

Автор сообщения: SBA77

Really, that's why they actually killed them off? I thought it was because they draconians would be cooler and more unique and they didn't want to have two similar reptilian races. Even though they do tend to be among favorites I have to admit that lizardmen are kind of generic in fantasy settings and you do see them quite often.

Yeah.
From what i read(I cannot find it at the moment)
The lizards ability to travel across the water made them to hard to balance.
And i remind you they confessed that one of the reasons they did away with race's was because it was easier to balance.

Triumph Studios has been removing features of past games since age of wonders 2.
Cannot make the ai use boats?
Units turning into boats.
Spells are able to destroy armies(As they shoud)
Lets nerf spellcasters by limiting them to 1 spell per turn and removing 9 hex strategy map spells.

Age of wonders serries serves as an exelent example of the newer the game the weaker the magic.

Age of wonders 2 shadow magic had:
Wood Elves.
Dark Elves.
Humans.
Dwarves.
Halfings.
Goblins.
Orcs.
Tigrans.
Frostlings.
Archons.
Undead.
Those glowly guys.
Shadow demons.
Nomads.
Each with there own selection of unique units.
Then you had 6 magic schools(7 is you count cosmos aka mixing schools)
With powerfull spells like wetland(everything but cities turn into sea over time) explode forge(damage to enemies in cities and disable building for 2 turns)
Divine/death storm.
9 hexes of pure pain.
Poison cloud.
Starts on 1 hex and spreads to other hexes over time doing posion damage.

Age of wonders 3 was 5 steps forward 2 steps back.
It added suchs lovely things as mana bombs, ghouls, dread reaper lose 50 hp or die ability.
Tropical, temperate, frozen, blighted, etc empire.
Plague aka steal pops from city and add them to your own.

A big part of why age of wonders 4 feels so insulting is that it got nothing left of what was once the staple of the serries.
Powerfull summons, spells and vast amount unique units and races.
Culture are lacking, spells have been nerfed into the grounds and you are limited to 3vs3 instead of the 9 hex serounding enemy we had for decades.

Ow right you asked i question and i am ranting.
Sorry.
In short a race that can travel over water gives them a massive advantage....
It is probley why flying units need to turn into boats in aow4.

Yeah each AOW entry basically got incrementally worse. 2 was still good. 3 it went meh. 4 isn't even AOW anymore, it's just some bland generic blob I find it very difficult to care about.

[Pek]

Автор сообщения: Flushing

Glad we just preempted all of this before the 1000post waaagh thread drops. Please don't "Hate Purchase" the DLC only to put the rest of us through hell on the community forums..

If seeing others' opinions (that you grossly misrepresented in your post) is that traumatizing for you, you could always ignore the forums and just play the game that you (surely) love so much.

[Picklefather Nurgle]

Автор сообщения: Malaficus Shaikan

Автор сообщения: Grandfather Nurgle

In the past, on Athla, Lizardmen were their own separate race of swamp-dwellers who just stuck to themselves.

And got genocided for being to hard to balance :sadface:

Which was sad. I actually loved their campaign the most in Age of Wonders 1.