Races beeing only cosmetic is not a good idea

[Sipher]

What is your opinion about the current races? While they look really cool and i really love that you can highly customise your starting race with the help of magic and transform them into totally different beeings...it still feels honestly quite dissapointing that the races have absolutly no differences from each other!

In my opinion it would have been so much cooler if the game would have been a bit more faithful to the common fantasy lore, so that orcs at the start would have the better fighters while elfs would have the better mages and archers at the start, and then allow to customise the races from this start towards what ever you want, so that you can have almost immortal and tanky elves in the lategame if you enchance them enough with the right magic, or a magearmy of fireball throwing orcs when you researched enough evocation, because by doing so, it would feel like an role-play achievement that you have done!

But forcing every single race to play exactly the same even including their units with the exception of tiny perks that you woundt realise that they exist after the first 10 turns, at least for me kills my sense of exploration and curiosity of playing a different race (and expecting to see something new/play a different playstyle) Such a wasted potential in my opinion.

[Lampros]

I totally agree, and it destroys immersion. But I am afraid this ship has already sailed.

[CattMeister]

I agree, would be nice if there was an additional racial trait per race that you couldn't change.

[DDkiki]

Its a terrible decision that killed game for me.
Body/mind traits are very badly designed, its just % bonuses that add nothing unique. You are playing as amorphous blobs with no lore or meaning to them. But I guess devs dont care about their game's world lore and story, looking at what they call "story realm".

[Lampros]

Originally posted by DDkiki:

Its a terrible decision that killed game for me.
Body/mind traits are very badly designed, its just % bonuses that add nothing unique. You are playing as amorphous blobs with no lore or meaning to them. But I guess devs dont care about their game's world lore and story, looking at what they call "story realm".

Precisely.

[David McMurdo]

The whole point is to use your own imagination to design the faction of your dreams. The devs setting anything in stone runs contrary to that. I can understand if someone doesn't like that approach, but that's the reason the game is how it is, and I personally like it. I like the set factions too, and the past AoW games are still there when I want to indulge in them again. I'm glad they're doing something different this time.

[messlinger76]

Agreed. It's one of a few major disappointments I have with the game.

[\\F.A.B.// Lucius]

I respectfully disagree. My first game was EXACTLY exploiting that, as I created an Orc Feudal Empire which was created by an Orc PALADIN Champion that rose in the society until he became King of Orcs, removing them from an unending war against humans and elves, establishing a respectful Empire that finally reached a mutual respect relationship with humans and elves, but had to face an Undead plagued world threat, while trying to make allies to face the Human Necromancers.

Your imagination is your limit. Why every Elf needs to be good at magic? Did you never play Pathfinder and saw the Wood Elves? There are DOZENS of different Elven races and only a few of them are focused on magic. To be able to play the Frozen Elves, the Desert Elves, and every another Elven race is a plus, not a minus. You just have to tell the game how every single Elf race are different from each other.

When you realise that freedom to create is the way to more replayability, you will see that this was the correct choice.

Cheers!

[DDkiki]

Originally posted by \\F.A.B.// Lucius:

I respectfully disagree. My first game was EXACTLY exploiting that, as I created an Orc Feudal Empire which was created by an Orc PALADIN Champion that rose in the society until he became King of Orcs, removing them from an unending war against humans and elves, establishing a respectful Empire that finally reached a mutual respect relationship with humans and elves, but had to face an Undead plagued world threat, while trying to make allies to face the Human Necromancers.

Your imagination is your limit. Why every Elf needs to be good at magic? Did you never play Pathfinder and saw the Wood Elves? There are DOZENS of different Elven races and only a few of them are focused on magic. To be able to play the Frozen Elves, the Desert Elves, and every another Elven race is a plus, not a minus. You just have to tell the game how every single Elf race are different from each other.

When you realise that freedom to create is the way to more replayability, you will see that this was the correct choice.

Cheers!

You played feudal race. Not orcs.

[CattMeister]

Originally posted by David McMurdo:

The whole point is to use your own imagination to design the faction of your dreams. The devs setting anything in stone runs contrary to that. I can understand if someone doesn't like that approach, but that's the reason the game is how it is, and I personally like it. I like the set factions too, and the past AoW games are still there when I want to indulge in them again. I'm glad they're doing something different this time.

Even you would agree it would be nice if race had some kind of impact albeit small?
In AoW 1 and 2 race was a bigger factor than the magic you'd choose, in 3 it was like 50/50 with archetype and now there's no difference between races at all.

[David McMurdo]

Originally posted by CattMeister:

Originally posted by David McMurdo:

The whole point is to use your own imagination to design the faction of your dreams. The devs setting anything in stone runs contrary to that. I can understand if someone doesn't like that approach, but that's the reason the game is how it is, and I personally like it. I like the set factions too, and the past AoW games are still there when I want to indulge in them again. I'm glad they're doing something different this time.

Even you would agree it would be nice if race had some kind of impact albeit small?
In AoW 1 and 2 race was a bigger factor than the magic you'd choose, in 3 it was like 50/50 with archetype and now there's no difference between races at all.

Race does have an impact though, in the form of the body and mind traits, and while the player can change those at will, the AI factions will always stick to the defaults, which are appropriate for the race in question.

I also find it strange that people complain about race being purely aesthetic, firstly because for the reason above it isn't true, and also because it implies that aesthetics don't matter at all, which is clearly untrue. Even those arguing that races are purely cosmetic won't just choose a form at random when starting a new game—they'll choose one that appeals to them for whatever reason. Even if you want to pretend that the races are interchangable, that choice clearly still matters, because to most players it matters if their faction consists of humans, orcs, toads, or molemen, even if only for thematic reasons.

There are some people that will always genuinely dislike this new approach, and I can understand that, but in many cases I think that people just need time to adjust to it and to appreciate the potential it offers.

[Caz]

Originally posted by andrej:

What is your opinion about the current races?

There's more than one? All I've seen is just one with different skins.

Originally posted by andrej:

you can highly customise your starting race with the help of magic and transform them into totally different beeings

As much as I've been harshly criticizing AoW4, this is an extremely cool feature. I really hope other games' devs see this and put their own spin on it.

Originally posted by andrej:

In my opinion it would have been so much cooler if the game would have been a bit more faithful to the common fantasy lore, so that orcs at the start would have the better fighters while elfs would have the better mages and archers at the start, and then allow to customise the races from this start towards what ever you want, so that you can have almost immortal and tanky elves in the lategame if you enchance them enough with the right magic, or a magearmy of fireball throwing orcs when you researched enough evocation, because by doing so, it would feel like an role-play achievement that you have done!

Actual depth and complexity. That would be awesome.

On a related note, why even have different schools of magic when you're able to get everything? Want to save the rainforest by turning the world into an icesheet populated by zombies who can teleport while flinding fireballs? Sounds cool on paper, but it makes no sense. The tooltips even point out that schools of magic have counterparts. But why make the player use their thinkybits to make choices when you can just give them everything...

[\\F.A.B.// Lucius]

Originally posted by DDkiki:

You played feudal race. Not orcs.

They were the Orcs of that world. They had Strong, as Orcs are physically stronger than other average races, and Tenacious, as they fight in a rage style that makes them threatening even if their numbers in battle dwindle. It was a very believable Orc race.

They were Orcs. At least, the Orcs that I imagined to exist. You don't get to decide what is a race or not, as it is all creative product. And the faster you learn to create your own races and try to bring them to victory, the faster you are going to enjoy this game.

Also, OP, you are wrong. The game HAS SETTLED different characteristics to every race. You are actually complaining for the ability to CHANGE THEM. Just don't change. What is the problem?

[Caz]

Originally posted by David McMurdo:

Originally posted by CattMeister:

Even you would agree it would be nice if race had some kind of impact albeit small?
In AoW 1 and 2 race was a bigger factor than the magic you'd choose, in 3 it was like 50/50 with archetype and now there's no difference between races at all.

Race does have an impact though, in the form of the body and mind traits

You mean the things that literally every race can get through the magic system? hmm...

Originally posted by David McMurdo:

and while the player can change those at will, the AI factions will always stick to the defaults, which are appropriate for the race in question.

Kinda like how the AI won't bother to actually ascend or partake of the Major Transformations. Dats sum gud AI dat iz!

Originally posted by David McMurdo:

I also find it strange that people complain about race being purely aesthetic

Because it is.

Originally posted by David McMurdo:

firstly because for the reason above it isn't true

I've seen zero difference in any of the races when controlled by the AI. They play exactly the same. Can you send me the link to whatever game you're playing? Sounds like a fun game.

Originally posted by David McMurdo:

also because it implies that aesthetics don't matter at all, which is clearly untrue.

If they all play the same, then the aesthetics don't matter. So it's quite true.

Originally posted by David McMurdo:

Even those arguing that races are purely cosmetic now won't chose a form at random when starting a new game

A choice that has zero impact on anything but visuals. Which is the point OP, and several others, are making.

Originally posted by David McMurdo:

Even if you want to pretend that the races are interchangable, that choice clearly still matters, because to most players it matters if their faction consists of humans, orcs, toads, or molemen.

Visuals are just fluff, tho. If all the races play the same, it doesn't matter what appeals to you, me, or anyone else. You're just playing the same race with a different look.

[CattMeister]

Originally posted by David McMurdo:

Originally posted by CattMeister:

Even you would agree it would be nice if race had some kind of impact albeit small?
In AoW 1 and 2 race was a bigger factor than the magic you'd choose, in 3 it was like 50/50 with archetype and now there's no difference between races at all.

Race does have an impact though, in the form of the body and mind traits, and while the player can change those at will, the AI factions will always stick to the defaults, which are appropriate for the race in question.

I also find it strange that people complain about race being purely aesthetic, firstly because for the reason above it isn't true, and also because it implies that aesthetics don't matter at all, which is clearly untrue. Even those arguing that races are purely cosmetic won't just chose a form at random when starting a new game—they'll choose one that appeals to them for whatever reason. Even if you want to pretend that the races are interchangable, that choice clearly still matters, because to most players it matters if their faction consists of humans, orcs, toads, or molemen, even if only for thematic reasons.

There are some people that will always genuinely dislike this new approach, and I can understand that, but in many cases I think that people just need time to adjust to it and to appreciate the potential it offers.

But just like planetfall the AI can use the your previous made rulers, you'll have to do change that in pantheon. Play long/often enough and you have a whole race soup where no race has definitive traits specifically to that race.

Now rather, culture is effectively what race selection was in the past. Race now is not much different than picking the color you want to be. Which in base game is also super limited, somehow.

[Blanch Warren]

Age of Wonders fans don't appear to be agree with you.