underground limited by bedrock

[robotninja]

does anyone know if there are terraforming skills for underground? I would've thought anything with bedrock would be in the geomancy/ materium books, but seems now. it makes underground adaption really easy to be limited by rng if you get a bad starting area.

[Xiane]

Well there IS diggable walls but no, the bedrock is the limits of it much like how mountains block the surface.

[Stromko]

There's actually a tier 3 tome spell to turn mountains into rocky but habitable terrain on the overworld, but it doesn't do anything for the underground. I haven't gotten to tier 4 or 5 spells but I'm not holding out much hope.

Just a spell to create some additional tunnels between caves would be nice as I can can't have more than a few cities without traipsing across the overworld to get to another pocket of the underworld.

I think they might have intended for the underworld to feel a bit cramped and limited, and it certainly is. Trying to play a civilization that only builds cities in the underworld doesn't seem like a good idea as things stand.

[Frienby]

Oh okay, so underworld adaption really is a bad trait to start with. It looked fun with fungal farms and stuff. This makes me sad lol

[fiendishdevil]

It's ok. I like starting underground, because you can pretty much lock yourself in by putting a stack on top of the entrances to the overworld. The AI won't ever come down that way...

[Beje]

I played a dwarf campaign underground and it was ok but be prepared for your main city to be the largest one. I activated larger underground for my custom map and there were....2-3 spots for large towns: my starting zone and the unfortunate AI's that also started underground. Other than that, just a lot of 4-provinces locations where you could set up mini towns....but 4 provinces just isn't enough to make it worth it. BUT, if you have a terraforming skill you can make some of the tunnels that you dig habitable (it doesn't get rid of bedrock, but you can settle in the small narrow tunnels after you dig a province). Nature and Materium both have something useful for that, like the one that makes rocky mountains yes.

[アゼム]

Originally posted by Frienby:

Oh okay, so underworld adaption really is a bad trait to start with. It looked fun with fungal farms and stuff. This makes me sad lol

I mean, you're trading unlimited expansion for, by far, the most defensible position in the game

[Frienby]

wait, you can settle in the narrow tunnels? would that make it possible to have an 8 tile city then? i mean, it's not great, but it sure beats the 4 tile ones. i really wish they made underground play more viable. massive underground just isn't cavernous enough lol

[suejak]

The bedrock is both a blessing and a curse. I do wish you could break it down if you have Underground Adaptation, but it is really strategically valuable as well and gives some more nuance to the underground.

[=(FGR)=Sentinel]

Originally posted by Stromko:

There's actually a tier 3 tome spell to turn mountains into rocky but habitable terrain on the overworld, but it doesn't do anything for the underground. I haven't gotten to tier 4 or 5 spells but I'm not holding out much hope.

Just a spell to create some additional tunnels between caves would be nice as I can can't have more than a few cities without traipsing across the overworld to get to another pocket of the underworld.

The spell you're talking about actually does work underground to a limited extent since it can convert any ground province (ie, anything that has a tile an army can stand on without using a boat to occupy that tile) into an area of rocky terrain. It's not as great as making/collapsing tunnels (which I'd really like) or being able to collapse/open passages to the surface, but it does allow a city to extend beyond whatever underground chamber the city center is in, which is still something I guess.

[=(FGR)=Sentinel]

Originally posted by Frienby:

wait, you can settle in the narrow tunnels? would that make it possible to have an 8 tile city then? i mean, it's not great, but it sure beats the 4 tile ones. i really wish they made underground play more viable. massive underground just isn't cavernous enough lol

The terraforming spells from Shadow, Nature, and Materium can all impact the corridors through bedrock and natural bridges over lava or water, so you can convert them into inhabitable provinces, though they do have the downside of only really being able to expand in one direction (which means non-direct tunnels between corridors or longer passages will make it harder to expand into connecting caverns)

[アゼム]

What I wish is that there were 3 types of rock. The diggable kind and the indestructible kind. Plus a middle tier that can be flattened like mountains. Maybe make it so that by flattening we'd get a little more space than we currently do

[ayrtep]

Most caverns are about 3-5 provinces which is a bit small. There are a few bigger ones but they are usually occupied.

So far when I have started with the underground adaptation I have started in a big enough underground cavern after digging - say 20 provinces. So at least one of my cities is safe underground and I can develop as normal above ground.

[Frienby]

Ya, I get they are more defensible... but if I want to play an underground civilization without the focus purely being on winning, I'd like to be able to do that. Sometimes balance and fun get in the way of each other. They should side on fun and make the 3-5 province limit standard with massive underground giving more terraformable or diggable rock.

[Beje]

Originally posted by Frienby:

Ya, I get they are more defensible... but if I want to play an underground civilization without the focus purely being on winning, I'd like to be able to do that. Sometimes balance and fun get in the way of each other. They should side on fun and make the 3-5 province limit standard with massive underground giving more terraformable or diggable rock.

You can do it! Yes the underground is not perfect, I do wish we had more open spaces than just the 1-2 where the player/AI starts but I legit played 200 turns underground only, I never went up. 2 major cities and a couple of smaller ones. The scouts prospecting provinces is also very helpful and gives you something additional to do. I went with the magic victory once I got bored and explored 70% of the underground but the game was entirely playable and enjoyable even, with some caveats. I'll actually load up my campaign because I want to check something out, I had a region with 3 small islands of 4 provinces each, separated by a small bridge only so if I terraform the bridges I should be able to link the zones and form 1 bigger city. That would be pretty huge for future campaigns.

[Frienby]

Originally posted by Beje:

Originally posted by Frienby:

Ya, I get they are more defensible... but if I want to play an underground civilization without the focus purely being on winning, I'd like to be able to do that. Sometimes balance and fun get in the way of each other. They should side on fun and make the 3-5 province limit standard with massive underground giving more terraformable or diggable rock.

You can do it! Yes the underground is not perfect, I do wish we had more open spaces than just the 1-2 where the player/AI starts but I legit played 200 turns underground only, I never went up. 2 major cities and a couple of smaller ones. The scouts prospecting provinces is also very helpful and gives you something additional to do. I went with the magic victory once I got bored and explored 70% of the underground but the game was entirely playable and enjoyable even, with some caveats. I'll actually load up my campaign because I want to check something out, I had a region with 3 small islands of 4 provinces each, separated by a small bridge only so if I terraform the bridges I should be able to link the zones and form 1 bigger city. That would be pretty huge for future campaigns.

Please let me know if you can terraform the bridge, because that sounds amazing.