Spells so Powerful, they need to be reviewed

[アンジェル]

Just sharing my personal opinion why hinting towards stuff you might have missed
(I was checking stuff for my guide and thought this might lead to interesting discussions)

Amplified Arrows
The issue here is the very cheap malus. There are other units enchantments which deal similar effects when it comes to a numerical value of damage. But this one is too powerful for having the same malus, as the extra damage is done towards an additional target. That means, unlike those cases where you would "overdamage = null damage because target dies", this would cause almost always guaranteed damage. Espeically when the additional target is in firing range your archers switch targets, which seems like a bug.

Incite Revolution
Currently the only spell which also decreases a city population. While it does not give you the freedom of choice to target a specific province like Astral Shattering, unlike Astral Shattering it not only destroys the province improvement but spawns an Infestation with an Infestation unit and decreases the target city's population. With enough worldmap casting spellpoints, casting this spell multiple times or continously ruins a city with little one can do about but rushing the forced build of a Spell Jammer.

Keeper's Mark
I have mixed feelings about this one, because it seems fair to me. If you can use it and your enemy can use it and it is still managable, it is usually okay. What bugs me here is the malus is still too low for the effect "I force the enemy to attack this unit which is supposed to die at least once more, making the enemy waste valuable action points". Plus the fact that it comes actually from a Tier III tome which does not feel right. I would rather see it in a Tier V, at least Tier IV with a bigger malus.

Call Forth Avatar of Chaos
Tome V spells are the pinnacle of superiority. However, being able to use your ruler hero with any army is a tad too strong. Especially the Wizard King hero benefits far too much from this with Overchanneling. If that would not be there and mayhaps the avatar starts with 20% HP and all their skills have at least +1T additional cooldown, it would feel more fair. Otherwise you can enhance basically every army with 1 additional hero which you have not to fear to lose - aside from the bug that it prevents you from spellcasting in the current battle, when the avatar falls. It is power manifested.

What do you think of my evaluation of those four? Any spells you miss?

[yuzhonglu]

Map summon spells are the most OP since you can within 4-5 turns create an army anywhere you have vision.

[Fendelphi]

I could be remembering wrong, but I do believe the upkeep cost for Amplified Arrows is higher than most of the basic ranged damage enchantments.
Meteor Arrows are similarly more powerful than most ranged enchantments(with no damage drawbacks), but also has a higher upkeep.


I think you mean "Incite Revolution", not "Incite Rebellion"(which is a siege project).
By the time your enemies can cast tier 3 spells(like Incite Revolution), you should already have spell jammers up and running. Several spells around that tier can destroy provinces or mess up your production in some way by altering the province.
And Astral Shattering does destroy population as well.

Keeper's Mark is a non-issue. The AI might not be able to deal with it effectively though.

Call forth Avatar is a tier 5 thing. It is a combat summon, so requires a spell cast, mana and casting points. If you intend to use it early and often in battle, you get a pretty big drain on your mana. It is strong, if you have a powerful ruler at a high level. But it still just a single unit summon.


Compare this potency to something like Tectonic Shatter, which deals upwards to 50 damage to all enemy units(more if you focus on magic damage), with a 60% base chance to also stun them.

Another devastating Spell is Awaken Instinct. Potentially your entire army gets healed(Gaia's Chosen) and a free turn.

Marching Winter is also secretly an OP spell with the right setup.

[アンジェル]

Originally posted by Fendelphi:

I could be remembering wrong, but I do believe the upkeep cost for Amplified Arrows is higher than most of the basic ranged damage enchantments.
Meteor Arrows are similarly more powerful than most ranged enchantments(with no damage drawbacks), but also has a higher upkeep.


I think you mean "Incite Revolution", not "Incite Rebellion"(which is a siege project).
By the time your enemies can cast tier 3 spells(like Incite Revolution), you should already have spell jammers up and running. Several spells around that tier can destroy provinces or mess up your production in some way by altering the province.
And Astral Shattering does destroy population as well.

Keeper's Mark is a non-issue. The AI might not be able to deal with it effectively though.

Call forth Avatar is a tier 5 thing. It is a combat summon, so requires a spell cast, mana and casting points. If you intend to use it early and often in battle, you get a pretty big drain on your mana. It is strong, if you have a powerful ruler at a high level. But it still just a single unit summon.


Compare this potency to something like Tectonic Shatter, which deals upwards to 50 damage to all enemy units(more if you focus on magic damage), with a 60% base chance to also stun them.

Another devastating Spell is Awaken Instinct. Potentially your entire army gets healed(Gaia's Chosen) and a free turn.

Marching Winter is also secretly an OP spell with the right setup.

Thanks for the correction - yeah, I meant the world map spell, not the siege spell. ^^

Tectonic Shatter and the Gaia's Chosen combo I considered in fact to list them. But they are still doable and do not feel too much out of bounds for me personally. Plus, like Marching Winter, it needs a prepared setup, while the spells I have in mind are universally too good without dependancies. With the Spell jammer thing I am still not sure. Turning a forest into an army, or summon units and sneak them in to take those out, still leads to a strong province lost. But that can be situational good/bad as Tectonic Shatter which also feels superior when you are not prepared against it.

[Zedonova Nova]

if we can get a game that doesn't crash maybe we can discuss this

[アンジェル]

Originally posted by Sednova Nova:

if we can get a game that doesn't crash maybe we can discuss this

96,7 hours playtime, only 3 different crashes, all before the very first patch.

I suggest you avoid spamming meaningless posts which have nothing to do with the discussion to begin with.

[ReverseRaven]

Originally posted by アンジェル:

Amplified Arrows
The issue here is the very cheap malus. There are other units enchantments which deal similar effects when it comes to a numerical value of damage. But this one is too powerful for having the same malus, as the extra damage is done towards an additional target. That means, unlike those cases where you would "overdamage = null damage because target dies", this would cause almost always guaranteed damage. Espeically when the additional target is in firing range your archers switch targets, which seems like a bug.

Keeper's Mark
I have mixed feelings about this one, because it seems fair to me. If you can use it and your enemy can use it and it is still managable, it is usually okay. What bugs me here is the malus is still too low for the effect "I force the enemy to attack this unit which is supposed to die at least once more, making the enemy waste valuable action points". Plus the fact that it comes actually from a Tier III tome which does not feel right. I would rather see it in a Tier V, at least Tier IV with a bigger malus.

For Amplified Arrows I believe it's actually just a visual bug. What actually happens based on experience is that they will continue firing at the empty ground and the arrows chain from there. Whether it should do this or not after a target dies is a separate question, but it should be noted that with Amplified Arrows, you can hold alt while firing to force shoot at the ground and it will bounce to the nearest enemy. This was the behavior for chaining attacks in Planetfall as well, giving you an effective +3 range on your attacks for less damage.

The issue I have with Keeper's Mark is that it affects disposable summons. It makes the summoned animals/zombies/living vines a far more potent roadblock than they should be. I'd say change them to not be affected and it would be balanced enough.

[Aimstrong]

Keeper's Mark has a counter btw: Disruption Wave.
I have a new renewed appreciation for this spell because fighting a Keeper's Mark army is annoying :).