The mess that is Victory condition and AI

[SQW]

Guess most people would have had a few games under their belt by now so here's my issue: Magic Victory.

The AI seems to aim for MV exclusively in all my games. It's too passive for Expansion Victory and no way it could go for Point Victory. So with the Brutal bonuses it gets, the AI is happy to turtle all day while building up the seed/root/heart which forces you play aggressive. At this point, I feel I'm less fighting against the AI's armies than I am against its banks.

At this point, I don't even think the AI is coded to win by any other means.

[M0rgi]

Its not difficult to outrace AI in magic victory. Cant remember what turn they get access to it but they are pretty slow

[DDkiki]

I'm very annoyed magic victory is also not disabled in story realms...

[djheat]

This does seem to be right in my experience. I've certainly not seen the AI players behave like they're trying to win by any means besides building magic victory pieces

[SQW]

Originally posted by Denam Pavel:

Its not difficult to outrace AI in magic victory. Cant remember what turn they get access to it but they are pretty slow

But sometimes you want to play around with late game units etc and don't want to rush to a boring magic victory where you turtle around three provinces for 15 turns. It might be different if the AI puts up some pressure and attack you and MV is the only way you could win while being pressed from all sides but as of right now, MV now is just quicker because research is more convenient than conquering 100+ provinces or killing everyone else on the map for both you and the AI.

[アンジェル]

Originally posted by SQW:

Originally posted by Denam Pavel:

Its not difficult to outrace AI in magic victory. Cant remember what turn they get access to it but they are pretty slow

But sometimes you want to play around with late game units etc and don't want to rush to a boring magic victory where you turtle around three provinces for 15 turns. It might be different if the AI puts up some pressure and attack you and MV is the only way you could win while being pressed from all sides but now, MV now is just quicker because research is more convenient than conquering 100+ provinces or killing everyone else on the map.

If you want to play around, you disable Magic Victory. Simple as that.

[SQW]

Originally posted by アンジェル:

Originally posted by SQW:

But sometimes you want to play around with late game units etc and don't want to rush to a boring magic victory where you turtle around three provinces for 15 turns. It might be different if the AI puts up some pressure and attack you and MV is the only way you could win while being pressed from all sides but now, MV now is just quicker because research is more convenient than conquering 100+ provinces or killing everyone else on the map.

If you want to play around, you disable Magic Victory. Simple as that.

But you can't in the story realms.
And disabling a victory condition so the AI doesn't get to abuse it exclusively due to in-built bonus is NOT a solution.

[The Doctor]

I'm playing for a Beacons (Expansion) Victory this time around. It seems achievable for the AI as it's based on province control but at this point in time, I have no idea what proportion of provinces need to be under my control. This seems like a likely win condition for the AI too IF you let one of them grow really large and that hasn't happened in any of my games.

I doubt many of our games are going to score victories either. I have finished them all long before Turn 150, both by conquest (Military) and magic.

Once the AI is made to be more aggressive, we might see some Beacon victories start to happen. I've read reports in the game that an AI player has been sent to the void or defeated when I wasn't the one doing any of it so they do fight each other. (Unless it was mauraders capturing the throne city and killing the leader in the battle) so a military could happen. of course, to do that, they're going to have to defeat me. I'm far from being the best player here either so how likely is that to happen in our games?

It may just be that the Magic Victory is the easiest for the AI to accomplish at the moment.

[sandman25dcsss]

Disabling magic victory is perfect solution. Like in planetfall it happens too early and is the easiest win by far.

[Fendelphi]

Originally posted by SQW:

Originally posted by アンジェル:

If you want to play around, you disable Magic Victory. Simple as that.

But you can't in the story realms.
And disabling a victory condition so the AI doesn't get to abuse it exclusively due to in-built bonus is NOT a solution.

I dont quite get your stance here.
It is like complaining that the AI is using super weapons in a command and conquer game, but you dont want to disable them, because you also want to use them.


By the time the AI has tier 5 tomes, you should be well inside "late game" stage as well. You dont need to be "super aggressive" to either pillage one of their important cities, or even conquer it.
If that is not possible for you, either lower the difficulty, play against fewer enemies, or disable the magic victory condition, so that you can enjoy your "late game" the way you want.

Personally, I havent had a single magic victory yet. All have been conquests(although one was close to also be a magic victory).

[BigJ]

Some ai personalities are definetly agressive enough to get a military victory. Custom made empires tend to also be incredibly agressive, Meandor is the outlier in the pre-made factions as they seem EXTREMELY agressive the moment the turn timer hits 35.

[Dynamo Rex (mrrexplorer)]

Originally posted by SQW:

Guess most people would have had a few games under their belt by now so here's my issue: Magic Victory.

The AI seems to aim for MV exclusively in all my games. It's too passive for Expansion Victory and no way it could go for Point Victory. So with the Brutal bonuses it gets, the AI is happy to turtle all day while building up the seed/root/heart which forces you play aggressive. At this point, I feel I'm less fighting against the AI's armies than I am against its banks.

At this point, I don't even think the AI is coded to win by any other means.

Literal my only and first true lose, whas because the AI in difficult, literal make a magic Victory in the turn 50.....so WTF XD

[tommy]

I agree entirely with OP.

I stand to be corrected - but in the story campaigns I cannot see how you disable a Magic Victory (MV) and force say a Conquer all Victory like you can in Civilisation (Civ).
Also AI MV victories can be difficult to counter as getting across the map in sufficient strength to attack a seed placed at the furthest possible point from you is very problematical thereby forcing me to also pursue a MV or lose.

A good addition, again like Civ, would be to have the option of continuing the scenario after victory is declared. That way you could at least play for Conquer all Victory.

[Babushka]

You're supposed destroy them, the same way AI invades you when you start casting the magic victory spell.

[The Doctor]

In my very first game, one of the AIs started the countdown and I sent a few stacks to put an end to that caper. I didn't have to as it turns out because the spawning attackers did the job for me. I was therefore forewarned when I started my own magic Victory.

[Heron]

Originally posted by The Doctor:

I'm playing for a Beacons (Expansion) Victory this time around. It seems achievable for the AI as it's based on province control but at this point in time, I have no idea what proportion of provinces need to be under my control.

You can check the number of provinces needed for an expansion victory in the quests menu on the upper left.