"Major AI update" as promised in the watcher update? yes/no?

[Dizzy Ioeuy]

Those of you playing the beta version. What is your take? Are they delivering as promised? The roadmap stated this patch was going to have the "Major AI update"

or is it still doa.

[Zak]

Just finished my 1st game on beta version. Got mil victory turn 125. Main difference I noticed was slower affinity skill progression than standard version. AI seemed a little more aggressive getting vassals. AI started to move towards one of my cities once in mid-game, I hurried a wall and summoned a unit to the city, and AI retreated next turn. By late game I was steamrolling. To be honest, I did not notice a big change in AI behavior. For me, the game was fun and error free.

[Dunadd]

The beta is just to test things out and get feedback. It won't show you how the AI after the actual update they're working on now functions.

[Dizzy Ioeuy]

Originally posted by Dunadd:

The beta is just to test things out and get feedback. It won't show you how the AI after the actual update they're working on now functions.

Really? That surprises me. What better chance to get feedback on the AI they are promising to revamp. Hm.

[pbaste3150]

There is some ai changes in the ai that appear in the beta. I believe they are explaining that not all the changes appear in the beta. The beta is a test version that highlights some of the changes they make.

[Dizzy Ioeuy]

Ok. I hope this is true, because no one seems enthused about the AI at all yet in the beta from what I can tell.

[TirAsleen]

Here are some links of the various AoW games highlighting all the same issues with the A.I. of the last 24 years.


https://aow.heavengames.com/scenariodesign/competeai/

https://aow.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/forums/display.cgi?action=ct&f=29,3505,2070,all

From the A.I. designer of the first 2 games himself:

Originally posted by Josh Farley:

The AI does not "cheat a lot" if you compare it fairly to other similar games - in fact, it probably has quite a bit less advantages than most game AIs. It gets no advantages in any of the random elements of the game (combat rolls, etc), and the income bonuses are not "cheating", they're standard rules at higher AI levels to increase challenge.

Advanced players are always going to find the flaws in any AI, and learn how to defeat it more easily.

While on the topic, a bonus to the starting city and starting units has been added for the higher AI levels in RMG games. Again, to increase challenge.

Btw, have you seen how the A.I. handles Necromancers in AoW3?

Yeah, it does not build anything and is the weakest A.I. even if its the last A.I. you defeat on a big map on Emperor difficulty.

Another example, how the A.I. cannot handle new game features in a sequel AoW and make the game even easier to beat.

Unlike multiplayer where as Necromancers are so overpowered that they needed a nerf in certain mp balance mods.

From what i have seen, AoW4 has some new game features that makes the A.I. appear even worse than in previous A.I. with the unfortunate exception of maybe AoW2 when the A.I. was not even able to enchant its units at all, it pumped out T4 units later in SM with A.I. patches, but it did not matter without the enchants which are very powerful. SM was the peak of AoW in pbem and live mp, but A.I. was still bad.

Imagine in PF the A.I. would play without mods, yeah its like this.

Bottomline: All it needs is a functioning A.I.

In terms of an actual challenge, the devs need to design endgame mechanics like revolts so your developed cities and units turn against the player something like that, else, the endgame is all the same steam roll business as usual.

1 Tip most people probably don't do: Try to organize A.I.s in teams, so team 1 is you, and team2 up to 7 other A.I.s

2 Tip, make at least sure you play against the pretender kings or on the Artica map.

This will prevent trade, peace and diplomacy so there is only war by default and you are going to face big A.I. armies early on that beeline your cities, even without the watcher patch.

Remember, you play a war game not a builder game like civilization. AoW4 might look like this now, but in its core its always a combat focused game.

I mean, i did not have diplomacy with Aliens either in X-com - the old X-com at least and the design is pretty similar with AoW regarding its combat.

The still very popular Heroes of Might & Magic III, by active players count right now, has no diplomacy and trading system with A.I. and on top of that a very simplified economy and combat, helping the A.I. to perform well compared to any AoW game.

Triumph Studios devs need to make the game more challenging by providing as said, actual new mid-endgame mechanics to help it, this game needs a very different approach to handle things, functionality alone will not provide that challenge, just a little bit an illusion that the A.I. is not completly dead and can move armies around.

I think both Artica and Pretender Kings are a good foundation for that, all it needs is immersive endgame mechanics to buff A.I.s and hurt the player. I think revolts are always very immersive for an overexpanded empire.

Empires created by the player, are way to stable and peaceful, this should change with expansion, but the A.I. should not be affected by this.

[Dunadd]

Age of wonders III AI certainly still fails to ensure it has 3 stacks all adjacent to each other when it places armies and garrisons. Seen some people saying it's the same in 4. Hoping patches will change that, but wouldn't put any money on it

[peequi]

Revolts is something that is often missed in these types of strategy games. As a faction expands, the risk of a revolt should as well, giving a new challenge to the player and a path to victory that is not just a straight line.

Unfortunately I think adding revolts to AOW will never happen. Developers and gamers seem to be content with the linear progression.

[peequi]

Has there ever been a rebellion/revolt mod or dlc on any of the previous AOW games?

[Dunadd]

Originally posted by peequi:

Has there ever been a rebellion/revolt mod or dlc on any of the previous AOW games?

I'm pretty sure in AOW III if a city's morale goes low enemy you'll get a revolt with an army of the city's race attacking it and any garrison you have there. Happened to me in the elf campaign when a rogue AI player cast some spell damaging my cities' morale.

[SQW]

*waves hand*
This is not the 'major AI update' you are looking for. Move along.

[The Doctor]

Originally posted by SQW:

*waves hand*
This is not the 'major AI update' you are looking for. Move along.

I presume you're aware of the irony in that media reference in this context, that those really WERE the droids they were looking for?

[TirAsleen]

Originally posted by peequi:

Has there ever been a rebellion/revolt mod or dlc on any of the previous AOW games?

This was only the case with AoW2's anarchist wizard skill and actual alignments on races.

[TirAsleen]

Originally posted by Dunadd:

Originally posted by peequi:

Has there ever been a rebellion/revolt mod or dlc on any of the previous AOW games?

I'm pretty sure in AOW III if a city's morale goes low enemy you'll get a revolt with an army of the city's race attacking it and any garrison you have there. Happened to me in the elf campaign when a rogue AI player cast some spell damaging my cities' morale.

In AoW2/SM this happens without anyone casting spells, thats the whole point of it.

[SQW]

Originally posted by The Doctor:

Originally posted by SQW:

*waves hand*
This is not the 'major AI update' you are looking for. Move along.

I presume you're aware of the irony in that media reference in this context, that those really WERE the droids they were looking for?

Meh, in a year or so, maybe that would be true for the AI. In the meantime, I wish I spent the money on BG3 so I can actually play a good game and not be a paying beta tester.