Galactic Conquest mode?

[SQW]

Probably the best addition to the Planetfall base game after launch and I'm disappointed 4 didn't start with it despite having no SP campaign. The road map doesn't mention anything of the sort either. Any chance we see something similar soon given the 'lore' behind 4 and hopefully not being locked behind a DLC?

[TriumphJordi]

Hi SQW, the Pantheon system is Age of Wonders 4's iteration of the Galactic Empire Mode. It's fully integrated into the game and functions as a key part of it, providing you with Pantheon Points for new unlocks and realms that provide harder challenges. The benefit of it being integrated into the game is that regardless of the Realm you play, whether that's Story, Challenge, Custom or Multiplayer you're always making progress.

As we continue to develop the game we'll be looking into Pantheon extensions as well, seeing what we can do to add more value to your Pantheon Heroes, provide more content in the system, add new realms etc.

[Balekai]

Originally posted by TriumphJordi:

Hi SQW, the Pantheon system is Age of Wonders 4's iteration of the Galactic Empire Mode. It's fully integrated into the game and functions as a key part of it, providing you with Pantheon Points for new unlocks and realms that provide harder challenges. The benefit of it being integrated into the game is that regardless of the Realm you play, whether that's Story, Challenge, Custom or Multiplayer you're always making progress.

As we continue to develop the game we'll be looking into Pantheon extensions as well, seeing what we can do to add more value to your Pantheon Heroes, provide more content in the system, add new realms etc.

What I think people really liked about PF Empire mode, was the personal power progression of their Empire's leaders as you played more, in addition to the personal story progression feel of it. Coming out of Star Kings campaign Empire Mode felt like a forever story campaign. But more importantly, the ability to start game sessions with unique units, extra levels/tech unlocked and unique leader buffs (Imperial Pilot, Juggernaut etc.) was the biggest thing I think.

The closest thing to Empire buffs are the loadouts that are unlocked, but these have opportunity cost and don't really add power over time. The Pantheon System doesn't have the feel of a story being told about your leaders personally, unlike conquering planets and creating an Empire in PF that was more tactile (literally had screens of planets and statistics showing your domain/conquests). I think you guys could go a lot further with the Pantheon system in AoW4.

Maybe some new leader creation options unlocked by your Pantheon progression akin to Loadouts but not loadouts. A new Pantheon Portfolio window during leader creation/editing that offers unique transformations, affinity buffs etc. from a list of unlocked Pantheon "Portfolios." This would not only address some people's concerns about AoW4 Pantheon System not being impactful enough, but would also address concerns about "Faction Uniqueness" too. Having unique faction looks/buffs and added power on game start would be fun and fulfilling.

You could also expand leader functionality in the Pantheon, allowing us to edit/select them directly and include the above mechanics in such a system. A secondary "elite" leader editor/playable character list you could say. Doing it this way would also allow you to separate possibly imbalanced buffs from the Pantheon system from the core game mechanics/new leaders too. Unique Pantheon Portfolios could be given to static/locked story Leaders that automatically join your Pantheon as well, giving us a reason to keep them on.

That way when your Pantheon leaders show up randomly as heroes or as faction leaders they're something to be feared. Not just another leader. :)

Just my two cents. :p

[Janthis]

What I think people really liked about PF Empire mode, was the personal power progression of their Empire's leaders as you played more, in addition to the personal story progression feel of it. Coming out of Star Kings campaign Empire Mode felt like a forever story campaign. But more importantly, the ability to start game sessions with unique units, extra levels/tech unlocked and unique leader buffs (Imperial Pilot, Juggernaut etc.) was the biggest thing I think.

The closest thing to Empire buffs are the loadouts that are unlocked, but these have opportunity cost and don't really add power over time. The Pantheon System doesn't have the feel of a story being told about your leaders personally, unlike conquering planets and creating an Empire in PF that was more tactile (literally had screens of planets and statistics showing your domain/conquests). I think you guys could go a lot further with the Pantheon system in AoW4.

I totally agree with this. I liked watching my heroes grow in power as well as being able to unlock new units, mods, etc. I also liked the feel of conquering new planets and watching them get added to my empire. I hope the Pantheon system gets at least some of those features.

[SQW]

GC's artifacts also give you choice of NPC units outside of your usual roster which can drastically change how you play. Pantheon points just feels like a tacked on incentive to convince people to grind through a few more games for unlocks.

[TirAsleen]

I wonder what to do with excess pantheon points once i had unlocked everything?

Would have prefered a realy big and detailed story campaign for immersion and after that an optional dynamic/skirmish like campaign which get progressivley harder for some extra incentive - i thought thats the reasion why to play SP in the first place?

Other than that its just like every other AoW game i played before it, SP Sandox is just there to test stuff before i go play it in multiplayer.

[Janthis]

As someone who isn't interested in multiplayer, I do wish there was more campaign/SP content.

[ReverseRaven]

Originally posted by Balekai:

What I think people really liked about PF Empire mode, was the personal power progression of their Empire's leaders as you played more, in addition to the personal story progression feel of it. Coming out of Star Kings campaign Empire Mode felt like a forever story campaign. But more importantly, the ability to start game sessions with unique units, extra levels/tech unlocked and unique leader buffs (Imperial Pilot, Juggernaut etc.) was the biggest thing I think.

The closest thing to Empire buffs are the loadouts that are unlocked, but these have opportunity cost and don't really add power over time. The Pantheon System doesn't have the feel of a story being told about your leaders personally, unlike conquering planets and creating an Empire in PF that was more tactile (literally had screens of planets and statistics showing your domain/conquests). I think you guys could go a lot further with the Pantheon system in AoW4.

Maybe some new leader creation options unlocked by your Pantheon progression akin to Loadouts but not loadouts. A new Pantheon Portfolio window during leader creation/editing that offers unique transformations, affinity buffs etc. from a list of unlocked Pantheon "Portfolios." This would not only address some people's concerns about AoW4 Pantheon System not being impactful enough, but would also address concerns about "Faction Uniqueness" too. Having unique faction looks/buffs and added power on game start would be fun and fulfilling.

You could also expand leader functionality in the Pantheon, allowing us to edit/select them directly and include the above mechanics in such a system. A secondary "elite" leader editor/playable character list you could say. Doing it this way would also allow you to separate possibly imbalanced buffs from the Pantheon system from the core game mechanics/new leaders too. Unique Pantheon Portfolios could be given to static/locked story Leaders that automatically join your Pantheon as well, giving us a reason to keep them on.

That way when your Pantheon leaders show up randomly as heroes or as faction leaders they're something to be feared. Not just another leader. :)

Just my two cents. :p

This 100%. This would have gone a long way to dispelling the notion that "all builds are the same at end game."

Of course, then, some people who suck the fun out of everything would pick the exact same options all the time to "play optimally" and then go back to saying "all builds are the same."

[Saboera]

100% agree with Balekai as well.

I don't feel like the Pantheon currently even come remotely close to the Empire mode in terms of how interesting and enjoyable it was. It's the one feature added to Planetfall that saw me go from about 50 hours played to over 300. I really really want the Pantheon to be expanded upon or revamped to that level.

Pantheon currently is more or less just a couple of very basic unlocks and it maybe allows you to recruit a terrible subpar hero to recruit since they have no traits. It got a bit better with the Dragons becoming recruitable as heroes but it definitely needs more. It also doesn't feel like you are creating a story or a campaign like the Empire mode. So far it's a mix of random leaders I completed scenarios with and it doesn't really feel like it's doing anything.

Seeing the progression of your empire and its heroes was great. Having the opportunity to try really off the wall strategies with tech you normally didn't have access via requisition was pretty amazing. Tailoring your empire to certain strategies felt really good.

Being presented with a choice of scenarios of various difficulty degrees was also a great story building component. It added some sort of custom campaign feeling where you pick and choose your missions and rewards, the direction your empire takes, etc. It felt just right to me and as a bonus I didn't have to ponder for 30 mins what I could try next as a scenario.

[SQW]

Originally posted by Saboera:

100% agree with Balekai as well.

I don't feel like the Pantheon currently even come remotely close to the Empire mode in terms of how interesting and enjoyable it was. It's the one feature added to Planetfall that saw me go from about 50 hours played to over 300. I really really want the Pantheon to be expanded upon or revamped to that level.

Pantheon currently is more or less just a couple of very basic unlocks and it maybe allows you to recruit a terrible subpar hero to recruit since they have no traits. It got a bit better with the Dragons becoming recruitable as heroes but it definitely needs more. It also doesn't feel like you are creating a story or a campaign like the Empire mode. So far it's a mix of random leaders I completed scenarios with and it doesn't really feel like it's doing anything.

Seeing the progression of your empire and its heroes was great. Having the opportunity to try really off the wall strategies with tech you normally didn't have access via requisition was pretty amazing. Tailoring your empire to certain strategies felt really good.

Being presented with a choice of scenarios of various difficulty degrees was also a great story building component. It added some sort of custom campaign feeling where you pick and choose your missions and rewards, the direction your empire takes, etc. It felt just right to me and as a bonus I didn't have to ponder for 30 mins what I could try next as a scenario.

Doesn't look like TS is particularly interested in making a GC mode for now. Pantheon reward system is just an uninspired unlock mechanic more suited to rogue-likes casual games. There's really little connection between the two and I wouldn't play a game to earn Pantheon pts nor would any unlocks motivate me to play a new game.

Sigh, I think I'm going to go back to PF until 4's 3rd DLC drops.

[TriumphJordi]

Originally posted by Balekai:

Originally posted by TriumphJordi:

Hi SQW, the Pantheon system is Age of Wonders 4's iteration of the Galactic Empire Mode. It's fully integrated into the game and functions as a key part of it, providing you with Pantheon Points for new unlocks and realms that provide harder challenges. The benefit of it being integrated into the game is that regardless of the Realm you play, whether that's Story, Challenge, Custom or Multiplayer you're always making progress.

As we continue to develop the game we'll be looking into Pantheon extensions as well, seeing what we can do to add more value to your Pantheon Heroes, provide more content in the system, add new realms etc.

What I think people really liked about PF Empire mode, was the personal power progression of their Empire's leaders as you played more, in addition to the personal story progression feel of it. Coming out of Star Kings campaign Empire Mode felt like a forever story campaign. But more importantly, the ability to start game sessions with unique units, extra levels/tech unlocked and unique leader buffs (Imperial Pilot, Juggernaut etc.) was the biggest thing I think.

Originally posted by Saboera:

100% agree with Balekai as well.

I don't feel like the Pantheon currently even come remotely close to the Empire mode in terms of how interesting and enjoyable it was. It's the one feature added to Planetfall that saw me go from about 50 hours played to over 300. I really really want the Pantheon to be expanded upon or revamped to that level.

Pantheon currently is more or less just a couple of very basic unlocks and it maybe allows you to recruit a terrible subpar hero to recruit since they have no traits. It got a bit better with the Dragons becoming recruitable as heroes but it definitely needs more. It also doesn't feel like you are creating a story or a campaign like the Empire mode. So far it's a mix of random leaders I completed scenarios with and it doesn't really feel like it's doing anything.

Seeing the progression of your empire and its heroes was great. Having the opportunity to try really off the wall strategies with tech you normally didn't have access via requisition was pretty amazing. Tailoring your empire to certain strategies felt really good.

We understand that and considered a lot of different approaches but doing some of these things isn't something that works in Age of Wonders 4. AoW4 is a game that already lets you pick up Tomes & Units whenever you want throughout the game. This means that the requisition system we had in Planetfall is rather unnecessary, as it's main purpose was to allow you to pick content that you could not normally access.

The Empire also had the issue where the power scaled incredibly hard meaning the maps couldn't provide enough challenge even at the end. With Pantheon being a integrated part of the game, where it works both in Story Realms and Multiplayer, means that we had to limit the degree to which you get stronger.

Originally posted by Saboera:

Being presented with a choice of scenarios of various difficulty degrees was also a great story building component. It added some sort of custom campaign feeling where you pick and choose your missions and rewards, the direction your empire takes, etc. It felt just right to me and as a bonus I didn't have to ponder for 30 mins what I could try next as a scenario.

Initial designs were somewhat different. F.e. originally you'd only have a choice of three Realms from the ones you had unlocked but moved away from that as we didn't want to restrict the content like that.

Originally posted by TirAsleen:

I wonder what to do with excess pantheon points once i had unlocked everything?

Would have prefered a realy big and detailed story campaign for immersion and after that an optional dynamic/skirmish like campaign which get progressivley harder for some extra incentive - i thought thats the reasion why to play SP in the first place?

Other than that its just like every other AoW game i played before it, SP Sandox is just there to test stuff before i go play it in multiplayer.

We definitely underestimated how people would be getting points and how fast.

Other than that, Pantheon did not influence Story Realms at all. With AoW4 we just had different goals for the Story Realms compared to previous Campaigns. It's why we don't call them campaigns in the first place.

[Saboera]

Originally posted by TriumphJordi:

We understand that and considered a lot of different approaches but doing some of these things isn't something that works in Age of Wonders 4. AoW4 is a game that already lets you pick up Tomes & Units whenever you want throughout the game. This means that the requisition system we had in Planetfall is rather unnecessary, as it's main purpose was to allow you to pick content that you could not normally access.

For sure! It's a different beast than Planetfall and its systems. I don't think it could stop a similar system from being designed however. It could come in a different form. Maybe instead you could even expand upon the empire skills and make it customizable a bit via the pantheon. So long it's kept as a single player feature, the design space is pretty open.

Originally posted by TriumphJordi:

The Empire also had the issue where the power scaled incredibly hard meaning the maps couldn't provide enough challenge even at the end. With Pantheon being a integrated part of the game, where it works both in Story Realms and Multiplayer, means that we had to limit the degree to which you get stronger.

I don't necessarily see that as a bad thing however, it's a showcase of the progress you made from a fledgling empire into a powerful empire filled with legends. Even if it does allow you to stomp whatever challenge is in the way. There is again an open space for design as well allowing even crazier challenging scenarios.

The pantheon so far doesn't really do much in general. It's not a far stretch to cut some potential features from being accessible in the story realms and multiplayer if it's problematic.

Originally posted by TriumphJordi:

Initial designs were somewhat different. F.e. originally you'd only have a choice of three Realms from the ones you had unlocked but moved away from that as we didn't want to restrict the content like that.

Fully understandable. I think the issue might be that the Pantheon isn't really its own thing and permeate every aspect of the game. I would love a mode that does apply restrictions, i'd even settle for just a button that randomize scenarios and make me pick from a handful of choices.

All in all, I just wish the Pantheon was something more than what it currently is. I'm looking forward to see if it get expanded upon and in what fashion.

[Taleheart]

Procedurally generated series of Challenge Realme, where you take the realm as a prize, could work. With special rules and special conditions. I think that is the prize that sold me the Star Empire mode, not the special trinkets at the end. Besides choosing and customizing a realm is not that quick process. I believe that at least a Random Realm option could be put in place...
Anyways, really sad that Star Empires will not be back.
In any case, I love AOW4 and will always support it. But please, please, please, keep in mind that there are a Lot of Single Player players out there, who are really counting on your help and attention, Triumph.
I don't know what is that craze for MP elitism, I don't get it - where's the fun in that???
Please don't answer that last question, I don't really care.