One flaw in unit production and enchantment

[pbaste3150]

There is no way to not have something not be enchanted since the enchantments are universal among unit types. This means if you can't keep up your mana production you can't build more units since you can't maintain them.

[RadCon One]

I wouldn't call it a flaw that the system is the way it is, it is a pretty obvious thing that will happen. If enchantments cost mana to maintain, then of course new units, even those that don't NORMALLY have any mana upkeep, will NOW have a mana upkeep.

Would it be cool to specifically be able to modify each unit/unit type specifically? Absolutely, but I wouldn't call not being able to do so a flaw so much as a lack of an additional feature.

[TirAsleen]

In AoW 1+2 you could enchant each unit individually and remove each enchant of an unit individually this lets you play more efficiently and conserve mana as basicly only your frontline units need enchants not the reserve you might have.

[RadCon One]

Originally posted by TirAsleen:

In AoW 1+2 you could enchant each unit individually and remove each enchant of an unit individually this lets you play more efficiently and conserve mana as basicly only your frontline units need enchants not the reserve you might have.

I'd only be okay with this if the enchantments took something like 3 turns to activate on a unit after enabling it (except for when the spell is first cast, in which case it is immediately applied to all units like it is now), so that you can't just toggle the enchantments on right before a battle or ambush, and then turn it off again to save mana. That, or re-enabling can only be done by standing on one of the 7 city tiles.

[Pyro Penguin]

Originally posted by RadCon One:

Originally posted by TirAsleen:

In AoW 1+2 you could enchant each unit individually and remove each enchant of an unit individually this lets you play more efficiently and conserve mana as basicly only your frontline units need enchants not the reserve you might have.

I'd only be okay with this if the enchantments took something like 3 turns to activate on a unit after enabling it (except for when the spell is first cast, in which case it is immediately applied to all units like it is now), so that you can't just toggle the enchantments on right before a battle or ambush, and then turn it off again to save mana. That, or re-enabling can only be done by standing on one of the 7 city tiles.

planetfall already did it perfectly, idk why they didn't just use the same system but rename mods to enchants

[xXBulletJusticeXx]

I like how the system currently is. There is risk vs reward. The risk is using your mana, the reward is a stronger army. You launch the spell and all future units gain the reward. If you launch the spells without thinking about the cost, it's the same thing as hiring too many heroes, or building too many cities, which you can't maintain.

If you end up with not enough mana income, just delete a few units which are effected by that spell... or dispel it entirely.

[pbaste3150]

Originally posted by xXBulletJusticeXx:

I like how the system currently is. There is risk vs reward. The risk is using your mana, the reward is a stronger army. You launch the spell and all future units gain the reward. If you launch the spells without thinking about the cost, it's the same thing as hiring too many heroes, or building too many cities, which you can't maintain.

If you end up with not enough mana income, just delete a few units which are effected by that spell... or dispel it entirely.

That just makes the economy of the game meaningless if you have can't balance gold versus mana income, which is what the current state of game enchantments make happen.

It seems the only current thing to do is reduce the number of global unit enchantments to increase the army count so you can defend your cities and have a mobile army at the same time.

[ChaosKhan]

Originally posted by pbaste3150:

There is no way to not have something not be enchanted since the enchantments are universal among unit types. This means if you can't keep up your mana production you can't build more units since you can't maintain them.

It's not a flaw, but a very useful feature. I would hate it to do enchantments over and over again or, god forbid, do it on every single unit... I am glad, the times of those tendious micro are over.

Try to plan ahead and build up your economy while thinking what you intend to cast a couple turns later.

[TirAsleen]

I'd love to farm some jester points just by mentioning the good game designs of TS past games, that are absolutely superior to the current AoW4 design :)

Actually the list of game design plunders is a huge one this is just the peak of the iceberg, so to speak.

And i am going to call it out for what it is on every opportunity.

[xXBulletJusticeXx]

Originally posted by pbaste3150:

Originally posted by xXBulletJusticeXx:

I like how the system currently is. There is risk vs reward. The risk is using your mana, the reward is a stronger army. You launch the spell and all future units gain the reward. If you launch the spells without thinking about the cost, it's the same thing as hiring too many heroes, or building too many cities, which you can't maintain.

If you end up with not enough mana income, just delete a few units which are effected by that spell... or dispel it entirely.

That just makes the economy of the game meaningless if you have can't balance gold versus mana income, which is what the current state of game enchantments make happen.

It seems the only current thing to do is reduce the number of global unit enchantments to increase the army count so you can defend your cities and have a mobile army at the same time.

I have NEVER been in a place where my economy suffered due to enchantments. It's kind of easy to keep the balance. If you are struggling with that, then perhaps you need to look into a better long-game strategy.

[Anarchy Burger]

Having to consider your resources when producing units is not a flaw

[xXBulletJusticeXx]

Originally posted by Anarchy Burger:

Having to consider your resources when producing units is not a flaw

Exactly. Anyone who thinks balance of units vs resources is a flaw has no business talking about what is good/bad game design.

[ChaosKhan]

Originally posted by TirAsleen:

I'd love to farm some jester points just by mentioning the good game designs of TS past games, that are absolutely superior to the current AoW4 design :)

Actually the list of game design plunders is a huge one this is just the peak of the iceberg, so to speak.

And i am going to call it out for what it is on every opportunity.

Yeah, keep praising a feature, that is only useful for those, that can't think further than 1 turn ahead and has the downside of stretching turn times by quite an amount.

[TirAsleen]

Originally posted by ChaosKhan:

It's not a flaw, but a very useful feature. I would hate it to do enchantments over and over again or, god forbid, do it on every single unit... I am glad, the times of those tendious micro are over.

Yeah, its not a flaw, but for a complete different reason. This new enchant system was done, to help the A.I. enchant its own units.

Because it couldn't enchant it own units manually in AoW1 and Shadow Magic. The A.I. was strictly unable to do it.

And AoW3 only had a few combat only enchants, so the devs did not even bothered with enchants much, due to the limitations of the A.I. using them.

Microing enchants on high tier qualiy units on the frontline aka units that you are going to use immediatly had a lot of advantages and was not as tedious as you might think, since you did enchant the units on the way to the opponent and you could mark multiple units to do it.

It was very effective, actually in multiplayer games and thats the core of SM anyways.

[TirAsleen]

Originally posted by ChaosKhan:

Originally posted by TirAsleen:

I'd love to farm some jester points just by mentioning the good game designs of TS past games, that are absolutely superior to the current AoW4 design :)

Actually the list of game design plunders is a huge one this is just the peak of the iceberg, so to speak.

And i am going to call it out for what it is on every opportunity.

Yeah, keep praising a feature, that is only useful for those, that can't think further than 1 turn ahead and has the downside of stretching turn times by quite an amount.

I think we should play some mp games, and we would see who is speaking smart afterwards :)

[ChaosKhan]

Originally posted by TirAsleen:

Yeah, its not a flaw, but for a complete different reason. This new enchant system was done, to help the A.I. enchant its own units.

Because it couldn't enchant it own units manually in AoW1 and Shadow Magic. The A.I. was strictly unable to do it.

And AoW3 only had a few combat only enchants, so the devs did not even bothered with enchants much, due to the limitations of the A.I. using them.

Microing enchants on high tier qualiy units on the frontline aka units that you are going to use immediatly had a lot of advantages and was not as tedious as you might think, since you did enchant the units on the way to the opponent and you could mark multiple units to do it.

It was very effective, actually in multiplayer games and thats the core of SM anyways.

Why they did it doesn't matter to me. It's an amazing quality of life improvement and cuts down substantially on turn times, that was sorely needed, without any downsides, as long as your brain is capable of planning ahead your economic build.

If the AI benefits from it too, it's even better.