Age of Wonders 4

Age of Wonders 4

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Motherball Jun 22, 2023 @ 1:24pm
Mod Request: Permanent Tactical Summons
Hello. I was hoping there might be a way to mod tactical summons from units and hero abilities to be permanent again instead of just disappearing after 3 turns. Any help would be appreciated.
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Showing 1-15 of 18 comments
tacotomthebomb Jun 22, 2023 @ 1:57pm 
Yeah having the option for longer battle summons would be nice.
Magic A. I. Jun 22, 2023 @ 2:05pm 
Elementals have a life, you know. The need to take their tier I elementals to school, go to work making lava flow and rain fall. They don't have time to stay with you all day and play video games.
Malaficus Shaikan Jun 22, 2023 @ 2:06pm 
Originally posted by Magic A. I.:
Elementals have a life, you know. The need to take their tier I elementals to school, go to work making lava flow and rain fall. They don't have time to stay with you all day and play video games.
Had a life.
Now there my slave.
Get back to work.
Magic A. I. Jun 22, 2023 @ 2:11pm 
Originally posted by Malaficus Shaikan:
Originally posted by Magic A. I.:
Elementals have a life, you know. The need to take their tier I elementals to school, go to work making lava flow and rain fall. They don't have time to stay with you all day and play video games.
Had a life.
Now there my slave.
Get back to work.
That would be a strategic summoning. Tactical summons don't get sufficiently brain washed to do all that BDSM stuff.
HolyGrail Jun 22, 2023 @ 2:26pm 
Originally posted by Magic A. I.:
Originally posted by Malaficus Shaikan:
Had a life.
Now there my slave.
Get back to work.
That would be a strategic summoning. Tactical summons don't get sufficiently brain washed to do all that BDSM stuff.
Please marry m-.. oh sorry i meant to say that made me laugh.
BBB Jun 22, 2023 @ 2:34pm 
I smell a mod incoming....
SBA77 Jun 22, 2023 @ 4:28pm 
Originally posted by Motherball:
Hello. I was hoping there might be a way to mod tactical summons from units and hero abilities to be permanent again instead of just disappearing after 3 turns. Any help would be appreciated.
Eh, the old way they handled summons (as in what they did in the previous games) was far better than this 3 turn limits. Hell even what most games do where the summons only last the battle is better. Well the good news there aren't any cool summons yet so it's not that big a loss.
Last edited by SBA77; Jun 22, 2023 @ 4:29pm
Motherball Jun 23, 2023 @ 12:58am 
Maybe one day.
Ichthyic Jun 23, 2023 @ 2:59am 
you NOW have a summon that can fully act as soon as it is summoned. meaning 3 full turns of action.
How many combats last more than 3 turns? very few.
Malaficus Shaikan Jun 23, 2023 @ 3:05am 
Originally posted by Ichthyic:
you NOW have a summon that can fully act as soon as it is summoned. meaning 3 full turns of action.
How many combats last more than 3 turns? very few.
Most of my last 5-7.
Granted those are always 3vs3.
Boring grind.
The change itself is meaningless and will just needlessly restrict and inhibit players, forcing them to dislike the game a bit more for absolutely no net gain. Summons were OP cuz they were cheap, instant reinforcements that didn't matter, allowing them to tank damage for your more valuable units. Now summons are OP cuz they're cheap, instant reinforcements that don't matter, allowing them to tank damage for your more valuable units, but they get deported after 3 turns, requiring you to summon another one, which you were already going to do anyway.


Functionally they serve the same purpose, but the latter variant are now more irritating to use after this "fix" the devs put in. If they'd made Summons more expensive in mana across the board, increased their casting point cost, or both, they'd have been far more balanced. Would have made it so only Mana Channeler factions could spam them with carefree abandon, while also limiting the impact they had on the game.


Of course they'd still be powerful, because just because something gets forcefully killed in three turns doesn't mean you won't use it. Often when people summon they summon the weakest unit they possible can, sometimes even a ranged/skirmisher unit, right in the enemy's face to distract their melee troops and hit em with retaliation attacks to take down models. Summons, as a result of said strategies, rarely live a full three turns even in a lot of early-game battles, making this change even less impactful the longer the game goes on.


My final reason for hating this new limitation is because it literally goes against their intended vision with the game. In the first Dev Livestream of the game, a bit after the announcement trailer, didn't they summon ice spirits specifically to tank damage from a Fire Giant? It lasted about 3-4 turns too, and did a good job. They even said something along the lines of "now this guy will take damage and spare our more valuable troops" if I'm remembering correctly. This mechanic was literally working as intended, and did its job perfectly. Placing a limiter on that now shows a lack of confidence in their own design and an almost too-eager desire to act on feedback from players. Not all feedback is good feedback.


TL;DR - Summons being limited to three turns didn't make the game better. It in fact made it slightly worse.
Last edited by Picklefather Nurgle; Jun 23, 2023 @ 9:06pm
Star Paladin Jun 23, 2023 @ 9:07pm 
About one third of the complaints I hear spammed are "NERF THE SUMMONS!". Complaints about how they last too long; are too quick and easy to make; and how it made regular units almost irrelevant. So they fix it, and now, all I hear is about one third the complaints are now "BUFF THE SUMMONS!".
Originally posted by Star Paladin:
About one third of the complaints I hear spammed are "NERF THE SUMMONS!". Complaints about how they last too long; are too quick and easy to make; and how it made regular units almost irrelevant. So they fix it, and now, all I hear is about one third the complaints are now "BUFF THE SUMMONS!".

That's because the summons weren't the issue. They were a symptom. The new healing system with persistent damage on the worldmap interacting WITH the summoning mechanic is what made them a major pain. If you were playing singleplayer, like most people, this was a very small but intensely annoying issue. The AI would summon a bunch of units it doesn't know how to use properly even though it knows it can't win solely because it is programmed to be suicidal, dealing as much damage to you as possible before it goes down. Even if the damage it inflicts isn't the most intelligent and tactical move. The AI never tried to win, it only wanted to punish and annoy the player.

The result was you sitting for 2 to 3 or even 4 to 5 turns on the world map doing nothing. Now of course, this made sense, as they intended for the healing to be the lull between battles where you decompressed and thought about the outcome. Figured out how you could have played to minimize damage in order to be able to battle longer. And if you didn't wanna do that, you could always improve your cities, engage in diplomacy and generally take stock of what's currently happening in the game. There was busy-work built in to make the down-time feel not so down. This design was intentional and it worked. It did not however lend itself well to being put into the hands of a spiteful AI or an even halfway competent human player.

In Multiplayer summons were apparently so cancerous that a lot of the multiplayer streams, videos and groups I've come across homebrew their own rules to restrict summoning on both the Tactical and Strategic maps. "How do we fix this?" the Triumph Devs asked with much rhetorical, feigned trepidation. "Oh, that's right, of course! Limit the summons that were already OP due to their cheap cost and inconsequential, low longevity and shorten their lifespan to three turns. Its brilliant!" they exclaimed with their out-of-touch, sh!t-eating grins.

I really hope they walk this back and hold off on a few of their planned "improvements" mentioned in the Roadmap. Making the game more like its predecessors isn't going to satisfy anyone, as those planned features seem to be aiming for. They're even bringing back Beacon victories, which in game 3 are basically the Unity victory in this game but with randomized "Beacons" set in somewhat pre-determined parts of the map. So the same thing but you gotta sit and babysit a new Ancient Wonder for 15 turns instead of a province improvement you built yourself. Same exact victory condition but more tedious and time-consuming as you have to slowly wait for a ticking score to tick off. Its essentially the Score victory combined with the Unity one.

I'm hoping they retool/rework it to fit the theme of the game better. Maybe make it so opening the Beacons allows you to auto-summon new units, as the Beacons in the past games were essentially giant seals keeping the ancient Wizard Kings away. Maybe you managed to just barely force your way through as a Wizard, begin the map as a native Champion or play as a rampaging Dragon Lord who's decided the soft-skins have mucked things up enough. Make it so you have to "open the gates" so-to-speak for your allies and reinforcements from the Pantheon, who help make holding the beacons easier as you paint a bigger and bigger target on your back. Something cool, thematic and, most importantly, new.


The base game is far too different to be made palatable to those who hate the new direction this game took, all but ensuring they'll alienate and annoy everyone equally if they continue like this.
Last edited by Picklefather Nurgle; Jun 23, 2023 @ 9:46pm
Motherball Jun 24, 2023 @ 11:13am 
No reason for players who liked the permanent summons to suffer. Let us mod the summons to be permanent again, so everyone can be happy, no? They should have just made a Limited Summons mod in the first place, imo.
Last edited by Motherball; Jun 24, 2023 @ 11:18am
Picklefather Nurgle Jun 24, 2023 @ 11:25am 
Originally posted by Motherball:
No reason for players who liked the permanent summons to suffer. Let us mod the summons to be permanent again, so everyone can be happy, no? They should have just made a Limited Summons mod in the first place, imo.

Big True. I've been keeping my eyes peeled looking for one for the last few days.
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Date Posted: Jun 22, 2023 @ 1:24pm
Posts: 18