Why mess with the elemental?

[Stoke]

I enjoyed giving my heroes the summon elemental spell when they would level up, if available. Now it is worthless since it only lasts 2 turns and dies. Why mess with it?

[GamerBear]

It's not worthless at all. It's a T3 unit that will asborb some hits and deal some damage. It doesn't have to last the whole combat to be useful.

The issue was that it was super beneficial to make stacks of heroes, each with summon abilities and the ability that resets cooldown abilities and then basically take an army of 6 and make it easily 12 or more. Made clearing wonders completely trivial.

Now they are still powerful but you need to be smarter about it.

[Aunty Herbert]

Because everybody was fawning about, that only the "Summon x" capstone skills were worth taking at all, and how they were totally OP and taking anything else was totally unreasonable.
Which, if true, would have made all other capstone skills worthless.

[rane]

The classic school of balancing by hammer.
If it stands out, hammer it down.

[hilfazer]

Summons from Vine Prison last shorter than they should due to a bug so perhaps it's the case with other summons as well. Most summons should last for 3 turns.

Summon Undead creates a unit tht starts with full AP so perhaps it's the case with other summons as well. I don't think it was the case before Wyvern.

[Terrkas]

When a skill is the strongest option (and summons were that) it should go back in line with others.

Some other skills probably need a buff before they are worth taking, but summons were the atrongest option until now and still are strong.

[CrUsHeR]

TBH the Summon signature skills are still pretty overpowered. If you have a strong starting army and a straight path of objects to clear on the map, you often reach level 4 long before being able to build your first T3 unit.

And even if you can build that T3 unit, it takes many turns to complete, and then you have to bring it to your army.

Then it's there, and the summon is still another T3 unit on top of your army of six units, expendable with highly disruptive abilities.

None of the other skills do remotely compare to the summons; example you buff your army with Mana Unchained, which takes up the first turn huddling up around the hero, so the first of three turns already passes without benefiting from it. Maybe the second turn you are close enough to attack, but maybe it's better to wait another turn in defensive positions. Then you get the effect for 1 turn at most.

[Neonivek]

Honestly summons are still probably the strongest option with very few exceptions.

The most damage you typically expect from a signature skill is 30 (there are situations where you are better off just attacking)... a Summon not only will dish out that 30 damage but probably absorb a good chunk too.

[Magic A. I.]

Originally posted by Stoke:

I enjoyed giving my heroes the summon elemental spell when they would level up, if available. Now it is worthless since it only lasts 2 turns and dies. Why mess with it?

To be fair, summons were broken to begin with. When I saw what exactly they do the first time, I though to myself: "what a mess, the dev is a NOOB". Now at least they've fixed it somewhat. It still sucks, but it's no longer as blatant a game-breaker as it was before.

[parent child bowl]

Originally posted by hilfazer:

Summons from Vine Prison last shorter than they should

What do you mean they last shorter than they should? They're supposed to last 1 turn.

[rumpelstiltskin]

the fact that summons are still better than the other skills really doesn't say much, because the other skills were and still are absolute garbage.

[Thats How We do action in Uganda]

Arent summons still the best choice? they are just a bit less op.

[Neonivek]

Originally posted by Thats How We do action in Uganda:

Arent summons still the best choice? they are just a bit less op.

Yes... and some of the milestone abilities are... pretty bad.

[hilfazer]

Originally posted by parent child bowl:

Originally posted by hilfazer:

Summons from Vine Prison last shorter than they should

What do you mean they last shorter than they should? They're supposed to last 1 turn.

They (effectively) last 0 turns.
A developer said they last shorter than intended:
https://steamcommunity.com/app/1669000/discussions/0/5264193038182850136/

[Shyhalu]

Originally posted by Gamer Bear:

It's not worthless at all. It's a T3 unit that will asborb some hits and deal some damage. It doesn't have to last the whole combat to be useful.

There is now a massive opportunity cost to it, which makes it pretty bad.
It didn't need a nerf, we just needed more hero abilities to pick from that are worth a damn.

[GamerBear]

Originally posted by Shyhalu:

Originally posted by Gamer Bear:

It's not worthless at all. It's a T3 unit that will asborb some hits and deal some damage. It doesn't have to last the whole combat to be useful.

There is now a massive opportunity cost to it, which makes it pretty bad.
It didn't need a nerf, we just needed more hero abilities to pick from that are worth a damn.

You are choosing to summon a unit rather than using your 3 AP to move/attack.

On the next two turns, your hero can move and attack and your new elemental can move and attack. You have improved your action economy.

Unless your hero could do more in one turn than a summon could for the next two turns, then it wasn't that big of an opportunity cost, on the contrary, if your enemies attack the elemental for more than 3AP worth then you have effectively removed actions from your enemy.