Nobody dies, ever. No exceptions.

[Albireo]

AH! like i get glossing over casualties and even plot armor if done right, but they seriously nuke a military fortress and by pure happenstance all of its staff and standing forces were away, zero deaths. immersion just took a grinding halt.

[zefyris]

While there's a lot of BS "resurections" in CS, I don't especially mind the Juno fortress "luck". I interpretated it as not being "lucky that Elysium struck an empty fortress" but instead, as Elysium purposely picking for its demonstration of power a time and place that would be empty. After all, it wants to "rule all in peace" , not to murder everyone, so demonstrating its power by mass murdering a fortress isn't the best thing to do. It even took the time to point out which place would be hit next in Calvard if Calvard didn't comply in time, ensuring that there would be only damage on military equipment and not on peoples, just like for Juno.

So I think Juno's case is fair game. The whole every named character we care about can come back from the dead though is pretty BS though, yes.

[Dr. Rudolf von Richten]

I'm more than half convinced Falcom is deliberately trolling us with that part, as in: "So you're complaining about 'no casualties'? Let us show you 'no casualties'!" :-p

But yeah, it is quite silly. You kinda have to roll your eyes and move on, appreciating the things the game does well, rather than focusing on the things it does ... not so well ..., if you want to enjoy the game at least.

For what it's worth, it appears that the next game, Trails through Daybreak (Kuro no Kiseki) is not so squeamish, something already evident in the last post-game Daydream.

[Stabbey]

Originally posted by zefyris:

While there's a lot of BS "resurections" in CS, I don't especially mind the Juno fortress "luck". I interpretated it as not being "lucky that Elysium struck an empty fortress" but instead, as Elysium purposely picking for its demonstration

The problem people have with Juno tends to not be Elysium picking a demonstration target to cause no fatalities, but the entirely absurd and unrealistic notion that an active, fully armed military base - which likely also had classified military secrets inside - was left empty, for anyone to just stroll in and take what they liked.

This is especially implausible when it's the biggest base on the west side of the country and the main defence for the biggest city in the west.

[Albireo]

Originally posted by Stabbey:

entirely absurd and unrealistic notion that an active, fully armed military base - which likely also had classified military secrets inside - was left empty, for anyone to just stroll in and take what they liked.

This is especially implausible when it's the biggest base on the west side of the country and the main defence for the biggest city in the west.

This right here. No one we know was home? no one important? fine, sure. but no one at all? And dropped that idea nonchalantly in 1 line like its normal? feels like an actual joke, like Blizzard announcing a mobile game to a huge room of PC gamers and ridiculing them for not being into phone games. Even something in there about a series of oddities that had the fortress empty for a bare minute could point to Elysium funny business. But nothing.

Don't get me wrong i enjoy these games, I can roll my eyes and roll with the near constant friendship speeches or CS style winning in battle followed by losing in cutscene and being saved by someone showing up just in time. (my god CS3 you were on something how often you did that.) but sometimes this crap crosses the line like its an Olympic long jump. Remember that one time a whole town was attacked and burned to the ground by blood thirsty mercenaries and no one was injured and everything was repaired in a day?

[vkobe]

Originally posted by Stabbey:

Originally posted by zefyris:

While there's a lot of BS "resurections" in CS, I don't especially mind the Juno fortress "luck". I interpretated it as not being "lucky that Elysium struck an empty fortress" but instead, as Elysium purposely picking for its demonstration

The problem people have with Juno tends to not be Elysium picking a demonstration target to cause no fatalities, but the entirely absurd and unrealistic notion that an active, fully armed military base - which likely also had classified military secrets inside - was left empty, for anyone to just stroll in and take what they liked.

This is especially implausible when it's the biggest base on the west side of the country and the main defence for the biggest city in the west.

in kiseki they dont really need human to protect their base, they have robots and automated security or monsters

[vkobe]

Originally posted by Albireo:

Originally posted by Stabbey:

entirely absurd and unrealistic notion that an active, fully armed military base - which likely also had classified military secrets inside - was left empty, for anyone to just stroll in and take what they liked.

This is especially implausible when it's the biggest base on the west side of the country and the main defence for the biggest city in the west.

This right here. No one we know was home? no one important? fine, sure. but no one at all? And dropped that idea nonchalantly in 1 line like its normal? feels like an actual joke, like Blizzard announcing a mobile game to a huge room of PC gamers and ridiculing them for not being into phone games. Even something in there about a series of oddities that had the fortress empty for a bare minute could point to Elysium funny business. But nothing.

Don't get me wrong i enjoy these games, I can roll my eyes and roll with the near constant friendship speeches or CS style winning in battle followed by losing in cutscene and being saved by someone showing up just in time. (my god CS3 you were on something how often you did that.) but sometimes this crap crosses the line like its an Olympic long jump. Remember that one time a whole town was attacked and burned to the ground by blood thirsty mercenaries and no one was injured and everything was repaired in a day?

well the anime say north jagger are not blood thirsty mercenary, but only mercenary and only follow noble order

[Met4Blade]

We already knew that Juno was unmanned after the events of CS4, when Erebonia downsized their military capacity as part of the reparations. Juno was given to Marquis Ballad and at most, only people that could have been present were him and his crew. It was never stated where they were, but it's not hard to imagine that Ballad was in Raquel at the time.

Originally posted by Albireo:

Remember that one time a whole town was attacked and burned to the ground by blood thirsty mercenaries and no one was injured and everything was repaired in a day?

Right, are we talking about Red Constellation attack on Crossbell with a lot of injured, or Northern Jaegers at Celdic, with a chapel full of injured and Otto dead?

[Albireo]

Didn't Otto die to unrelated health issues? like heart problem from shock at such unbelievable garbage? I was thinking about Celdic, but Crossbell works too.

[Alex]

Nope. Otto was hit by falling log when saving a child if I remember correctly.

[Stabbey]

Originally posted by Met4Blade:

We already knew that Juno was unmanned after the events of CS4, when Erebonia downsized their military capacity as part of the reparations.

That feels like a flimsy justification created only after the writers decided to blow up Juno, and like a lot of flimsy justifications, it falls over when prodded gently.

For starters, There are better things to downsize than Juno, which is the biggest known military base in the west of Erebonia, and if the main defence of Ordis, confirmed to be the biggest city in the west.

Erebonia needing to downsize military capacity after rapidly expanding it does make sense, but you would do that with all the brand new bases (or expansions to existing bases) which would have been constructed to hold that capacity. Or hell, get rid of Dreknor Fortress, which is a useless pile which doesn't serve any purpose that I understand. (It's quite far from any national borders and it sure didn't do anything to retaking Heimdallr in the Civil War despite being only about an hour away.)

Also, in the pre-destruction cutscene, you can clearly still see guns there - which there wouldn't be in a decommissioned base.

Originally posted by Albireo:

in kiseki they dont really need human to protect their base, they have robots and automated security or monsters

That only ever seems to be in bases affiliated with or supplied by Ouroboros, since the protagonists are consistently surprised to discover archaisms in bases. That indicates that they're not standard parts of the normal military.

Besides, half-trained first-year cadets can beat those things with little effort. They're effectively no security anyway.

[Alex]

Well, I certainly agree blowing empty Juno fortress is most probably [designed as[ intentional. The avatar, "Rufus", is a copy of original Rufus and so he certainly carries many of his traits.

As cynical and coldhearted as he may be, he will surely go for the easiest tactical achievement way and hurting lots of copatriots unnecessarily on the way does not comprise one. The intent was to show potential scale of destruction and so instill fear, not to decimate the army or population. Although if we play what-ifs, one of next strikes on still resistant areas would surely have been devastating. Solely for educational purposes.

Actually what pisses me more than lack of dying characters is how easily full blown villains become 'good guys' at the end of the day. Loewe. Jan. Dieter. Crow. Now Rufus.

[Ronery]

Looks like someone didn't watch the Jingo and Marquis Ballad Daydream.

>BUT ITS SO CONVENIENT!

Looks like someone missed the entire point of Elysium. If Elysium wanted to kill people it would;ve done that. It was showing its power. It picked Juno Naval Fortress because it calculated the best possible outcome; and the chain of events from the military downsizing in CS4 to Jingo's daydream with the Happiness stone led to this outcome.

[Stabbey]

Originally posted by Ronery:

Looks like someone didn't watch the Jingo and Marquis Ballad Daydream.

Looks like someone didn't bother to read any of the other posts in the thread explaining why people ACTUALLY didn't like this, and instead decided to make a little man out of straw to respond to instead.

Also, it looks like someone does not understand that "explaining" something does not work if the explanation itself is REALLY STUPID NONSENSE which makes no sense whatsoever.

[NisseDood]

Cold steel arc overall has had ♥♥♥♥ writing.

[ojvdh]

Originally posted by NisseDood:

Cold steel arc overall has had ♥♥♥♥ writing.

Pleasmane examples instead of just saying wrighting bad. I do think the wrighting is flawwed and even horendus sometimes with the curse in Cs4 being the worst plotpoint/device I have ever seen. It basically nullafyes any and all character actions during the game becouse the curse made them do it. But saying al the wrighting is bad is cinda a strect. I love the world building in cs1, the civilwar was interesting and wel executed not to mention c's death in that game. It was only in cs3 and 4 that I got annoyed with the wrighting. Muse in general, the curse, the fact we basically did the entire world building of cs1 again for no reason. But even than in cs3 we have Reans struggle with what he did during the northern war and crossbell ocupation. Case in point there is a lot of good stuff in there.