Some questions regarding Achievements, Bonding and Carry over into Azure

[Dr. Rudolf von Richten]

OK, so I have played both Zero and Azure before, but I nevertheless have certain questions about the topics in the title:

Achievements:

1): Rise and Don't Grind (completed game with everyone at level 40 or lower):
- At which point in the game, or at which level, do you need to stop fighting non-mandatory battles in order to be able to get this achievement?
- What is the max level/XP you can have at the start of the final dungeon, assuming you skip all non-mandatory battles there?
- Do you need to let the guest party members (Estelle and Joshua) in the final dungeon go KO or not (again assuming only mandatory battles)?

2): Crossbell Five-0 (get one character to lvl 50):
Assuming you didn't do the Rise and Don't Grind Achievement in NG, but got as much XP as you reasonably could, is this Achievement feasible on NG, on NG+, or do you need an NG++ for it?


Bonding and Carryover:

How does the carryover of bonding work from Zero to Azure?

I know that in Azure, your Combo Crafts are stronger with everyone with whom you've had a 'Final Bonding Scene' in Zero, and that after the prologue, you can choose which of these characters you feel closest to, which will result in the Combo Craft becoming even stronger. Or maybe you got something else with them, I forgot; point is, it's worth bringing over clear data in which you've had a Final Bonding Scene with all three characters.

What I don't know is: does this mean that for this to be possible, you actually have to do 3 full playthroughs (one for each character's Final Bonding Scene), with data carried over, i.e. NG, NG+ and NG++? Or does it mean you need to have achieved each Final Bonding Scene and got the corresponding in-game 'Record' at some point (which can be done in one playthrough with careful Bonding management and a bit of Save-Scumming just before the Final Bonding Scene)?

Thanks for anyone able to clarify any or all of these subjects!

[Stabbey]

1) For the Don't Grind one, I think you should start avoiding fighting ANY random battles as possible once the Finale chapter starts. Just the mandatory fights will gain you a lot of XP, so it'll still be close. Also as a tip, dead characters don't get any XP, which might come in handy *cough* final dungeon *cough*.

2) It's probably easier to do on NG+ since there's an entire extra high-level dungeon added on a second playthrough.

3) The game flags someone's Final Bond Scene as seen as long as you have saved the game in a slot. That's because it writes to the system file save, not just the individual save slot. There is a method of getting everyone's final event on one playthrough, but it requires playing in a specific way. Let's see if I can find the method...

EDIT: It's here[gamefaqs.gamespot.com]. This is a guide page so it'll have some minor spoilers by definition.

[Dr. Rudolf von Richten]

Originally posted by Stabbey:

1) For the Don't Grind one, I think you should start avoiding fighting ANY random battles as possible once the Finale chapter starts. Just the mandatory fights will gain you a lot of XP, so it'll still be close. Also as a tip, dead characters don't get any XP, which might come in handy *cough* final dungeon *cough*.

2) It's probably easier to do on NG+ since there's an entire extra high-level dungeon added on a second playthrough.

3) The game flags someone's Final Bond Scene as seen as long as you have saved the game in a slot. That's because it writes to the system file save, not just the individual save slot. There is a method of getting everyone's final event on one playthrough, but it requires playing in a specific way. Let's see if I can find the method...

EDIT: It's here[gamefaqs.gamespot.com]. This is a guide page so it'll have some minor spoilers by definition.

Ok, thanks for the answers!

Note that I'm already aware of how to do all Final Bonding Scenes in one playthrough (from that very guide, no less); I just didn't know how the carryover to Azure works.

[methosrocks]

I would think that to do Rise and Don't Shine, beating the game then carrying over everything BUT levels, thus making your characters OP without levels, then a quick playthrough on Easy, would make this a breeze.

[Dr. Rudolf von Richten]

Originally posted by methosrocks:

I would think that to do Rise and Don't Shine, beating the game then carrying over everything BUT levels, thus making your characters OP without levels, then a quick playthrough on Easy, would make this a breeze.

You're probably right on that, but it would still take much more time than not overleveling in Chapter 5, keeping a separate save just before the final dungeon, and then doing just the final dungeon 2 times: once normally (for chests, monster scans etc., and to get a good carryover for NG+), and once, on a different save-slot, minimalist-style (avoiding everything non-mandatory) for the 'Rise and Don't Grind' achievement.

But we'll see; I'll report back when I get to that point.

[Stabbey]

I meant "don't fight any random battles in the hospital", not just starting from the final dungeon. The guest characters do count against the achievement.

[jmporkbob]

For Rise and Don't Grind, you don't want to be above lvl 37 going into the final dungeon. You also want to kill off the guest characters before the final bosses or else they will level above 40.

[Werner]

A question about "Rise and don't grind" - I assume the achievement points carry over when doing a new game plus, but if I beat "rise and don't grind" on a separate save and then carry over the "normal" save - I won't have the achievement? Or is it global regardless of which "save path" you're on?

Also, when starting a new game plus, if I did everything (collected all books etc) and choose to carry that over, and then do an easy run on level <40 to get this achievement, and then a new game plus from THAT save where I don't got everything, what "progress" will be carried over? Just the last game or the total progress?

[Looseminded]

Originally posted by Daniel Werner:

A question about "Rise and don't grind" - I assume the achievement points carry over when doing a new game plus, but if I beat "rise and don't grind" on a separate save and then carry over the "normal" save - I won't have the achievement? Or is it global regardless of which "save path" you're on?

Also, when starting a new game plus, if I did everything (collected all books etc) and choose to carry that over, and then do an easy run on level <40 to get this achievement, and then a new game plus from THAT save where I don't got everything, what "progress" will be carried over? Just the last game or the total progress?

To my understanding, as long as one of the save files has it, you'll keep the achievement, even if it's a one and done type of file. To word it another way, achievements are global as long as save data holding that achievement exists, however it's best not to quote me 100% as I'm not entirely sure how true that holds.

Originally posted by jmporkbob:

For Rise and Don't Grind, you don't want to be above lvl 37 going into the final dungeon. You also want to kill off the guest characters before the final bosses or else they will level above 40.

You don't even want to be above level 34 going into it. There's enough exp in the mandatory battles that you still hit Level 41 after the first part of the final battles. I went from 39 to 41 on part 1 alone when I tested it with my then-current file and started it at 35. With that said, XP multipliers may have had a hand in that downfall since I took significant advantage of SPD Downing any targets I could so that they got less turns to attack

[Dr. Rudolf von Richten]

Originally posted by Stabbey:

I meant "don't fight any random battles in the hospital", not just starting from the final dungeon. The guest characters do count against the achievement.

I know.

If I fight only mandatory battles in the Final chapter, I should still be able to get every enemy at least once for the scan until the final dungeon.

Then, in the final dungeon, I'll do 2 separate playthroughs, on separate files:

1): I play normally, fight everything that moves, get all the monster scans, treasure chests etc, and finish the game over lvl 40. Clear Data from this file will be used as the basis for an NG+ Nightmare game.
2): I avoid/run away from all non-mandatory fights, monster chests etc, KO the guest stars and finish the game at lvl 40 or below for the Rise and Don't Grind achievement. Clear Data from this file will be stored, but not used in subsequent playthroughs.

That's the plan anyway. We'll see how it goes.

[Shenai]

I recently did Rise and Don't Grind on an old normal save and it was an absolute pain.
Don't be over level 35 going into the final dungeon, so stop fighting anything optional as soon as you possibly can. So 34 would be better, early 35 is doable (barely).
In my case I had to go back to a save from Revache & Co to make that happen.
I was level 38 before the final boss. Only the first stage gives exp. If you're not over level 40 by that point, you're good and only need to finish the fight. The game will show a level up screen after this phase. If you're over 40, Alt+F4 out of the game and try again.

The final boss is not actually hard as long as you keep everyone spread out.
My problem was that I was getting way too many multipliers. I had to gimp my party's speed, both from quartz and equipment to make sure the boss got in enough turns in between mine so I wouldn't keep getting the multiplier from seven turns in a row. The mandatory fights in the final dungeon will give way too much exp. Always avoid the multipliers, which also means relying heavily on arts and playing suboptimally all the time.

And yes, you need to K.O. the guests.
And no monster chests either.

As for scanning, you can go into battle, scan and then run, the scan will still count.
As you will need a second playthrough anyway to get all scans, you might as well save yourself the hassle.

Getting to level 50 is a breeze on an ng+ run because of the ng+ only dungeon. I got the last few levels easily just from the final boss.

As for the carry-over to Azure. From what I remember, yes, you will need to play through 3 times, once with each bonding event carried forward, to be able to receive a bonus for all crafts in Azure, but you will always only get changed dialogue and a small bonding point bonus for the one you chose to have happened "canonically" when starting Azure.

[Sorrel]

Just finished Rise and Don't Grind on NG Nightmare, I used my save at the start of the final dungeon (lv35).

I had enough wiggle room to grab either Lloyd/Elie's (got Lloyd's) weapon from the monster chests, but wasn't able to get Randy's cause the chest gave too much exp. I gave the Zemurian Ore weapon to Tio.

I was lv37 (SSS)/lv38 (guests) before the 2nd last boss. I had to redo this fight a couple of times to lower the exp multiplier from getting consecutive party turns in a row. It was somewhat interesting having to change up strategies to lower the exp multiplier. Thankfully, I didn't have to gimp my quartz setup/equipment. Ended this fight slightly over lv39 (SSS)/lv40 (guests).

Afterwards, I killed the guests, which was easily the worst part of this entire experience, I love these characters and hated having to kill them :(

Keeping in mind to lower the final exp multiplier (mainly consecutive turns, item usage and status recovery), I ended phase 1 of the final boss at lv40 with about 90% exp. Phase 2 onwards doesn't give any exp so just kill the boss normally and finish the game.

[Dr. Rudolf von Richten]

Thanks for the answers. :-)

@ Shenai: You sure about the 3 playthroughs? I've seen multiple comments (here and elsewhere) that everything in the 'record' section, including all final bonding scenes, is tracked for Azure.

@ Sorrel: I'm very impressed you managed to do this on NG nightmare; it gives me confidence that it should not be too difficult (besides avoiding the XP multipliers) on normal.

[Xune]

Originally posted by Dr. Rudolf von Richten:

Thanks for the answers. :-)

@ Shenai: You sure about the 3 playthroughs? I've seen multiple comments (here and elsewhere) that everything in the 'record' section, including all final bonding scenes, is tracked for Azure.

Edit after some tests : the records are saved if you save in a separate file after getting it. So you dont need 3 playthroughs but at least 2 if you want all the records.

After some research online and with the gamefaqs guide, it seems like you need to do 3 playthroughs if you want to have the all 3 upgraded C-craft to carry over to Azure. It seems that the 3 records are not enough and you really need to carry over the C-craft after each playthrough.
The gamefaqs guide about the bonding events said (https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/pc/712681-the-legend-of-heroes-trails-from-zero/faqs/78210/bonding), bottom page :

"Seeing a character’s final bonding event will get you a record/achievement and an upgraded combo craft which carries over to NG+ and Ao no Kiseki via save transfer

If you want to end up with all 3 upgraded combo crafts for NG+ and/or Ao no Kiseki, you will have to beat the game 3 times"

[Stabbey]

Originally posted by Xune:

After some research online and with the gamefaqs guide, it seems like you need to do 3 playthroughs if you want to have the all 3 upgraded C-craft to carry over to Azure. It seems that the 3 records are not enough and you really need to carry over the C-craft after each playthrough.

Getting the achievement alone does not work. But I believe that saving the game AFTER seeing the scene will work even if you reload to a previous save and get the next character's final scene, because of how the game records that information.

You won't get all three C-Crafts in the current game, it'll only carry over to Azure.

[Xune]

Originally posted by Stabbey:

Getting the achievement alone does not work. But I believe that saving the game AFTER seeing the scene will work even if you reload to a previous save and get the next character's final scene, because of how the game records that information.

You won't get all three C-Crafts in the current game, it'll only carry over to Azure.

I'm not sure that's how it works, the guide i linked (and some old post of the psp version of the game) clearly said you need to beat the game 3 times, The "savescum" doesnt seems to work if you want to carry over all 3 upgraded C-crafts to Azure.

Having the 3 final bonds events records just allows you to choose your final bonding event at the start of Azure between the 3 and get some bonus affection points for all 3 characters.

But maybe it's different on this version of the game, i dont know. It's like the record/achievement "You're Harder Than Hard" (finish the game on hard) that didnt unlock if you're doing a NG Nightmare run on older version but on this version of the game on PC it does unlocked it.

About "Rise and Don't Grind" i did it on my nightmare run (NG), I started the final dungeon at early 35. I was lvl 38 and a half at the final boss (mandatory fights only, skip all the rest) with guests dead and was lvl 40 1/2 after the first phase.