Dungeons of Aether

Dungeons of Aether

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Alphonia Mar 3, 2023 @ 3:33am
Appreciation of Dungeons of Aether and some recommendations
Let me preface at the start and say that I love this game and it will probably be my game of the year choice and/or my 5th favorite game of all time from hundreds of played games. This upcoming list of recommendations of possible changes may be long but for games which have a really good framework that you believe in it is almost inevitable that it would end like this. This is made post completion of the whole story mode content at normal difficulty.

Generalized Stuff: (this will likely have post launch additional content ideas here)
-It would be nice to have a bestiary to be able to review passive effects (like set stamina to 2 at the end of each turn) as well as enemy movesets (though if i'm not mistaken enemy movesets change on the same enemy throughout the story so it wouldn't work? perhaps I need to play some challenge mode to know more). Along with that maybe a item catalog for all the items to see what you could use for an interesting build or synergies as well as being able to check if you've seen all the gear in the game without needing to go to an external wiki.
-Additional story mode content maybe added as "side stories" self contained. It'd be a pretty good way to not to devalue the story while also adding new characters/abilities to play with. Also makes it so you don't have to re-go back through the game to fix timeline issues. Wouldn't mind post game story expansion for each of the four either.
-Idle animations lead into a somewhat high amount of time of literally 0 movement which feels jarring a lot of the time when you see it happen. Generally speaking minor bobbing may fix the issue or maybe limit the max time before an animation plays to a lower amount of time.
-Currency reward unique to challenge runs to buy stuff like minor cosmetic things to characters (maybe like pets in Rivals of Aether) or a ability to buy songs for an ingame jukebox to enjoy the ost from time to time. Basically a way for the player to feel better doing challenge runs than just because or for a flex (also can help retain player numbers if you care about that). Mostly just want to feel better about playing a large amount of this game post story.
-Would be nice if the menu screen had a unique theme rather than the intro cutscene (it would probably not be a good idea to have it continue onto the menu screen as a fix). Though maybe this is more of a selfish desire to hear more music from the artist as the OST is really good. I wait a while after finish clearing every dungeon to fully hear the dungeon cleared OST it's just that good.
-Gems vary a bit to wildly with some being universally good/strong to very niche answers that deal with certain encounters and some that are ok but are very difficult to use them. I didn't really make much use of gems in my run as it didn't feel necessary. Don't really know how to fix them but in summary many of the extremely situational gems feel like just selling material rather than you planning on actually using it.
-This bullet point would be about making a check for the player to choose to go to the next floor instead of instantly yeeting you if you stepped on the space but they have already fixed it. Nice!:steamthumbsup:
-Respecing your upgrades for story mode would be nice as if a player makes a bad decision of choice for upgrades it can lead to severly decreased character enjoyability for the rest of the story. (stuff like not building pure speed on hamir causes enjoyment loss)
-It would be nice to be able to swap gear from inventory to equip without needing a free inventory slot available.
-A randomizer mode might be pretty fun with togglable options for randomized enemy passive skill(s), player passive skill(s), dice type given from equipment (like if we got +2 atk dice over +2 speed dice when blocking on the boots or it just randomly generates the dice type for each version of the item you got), enemy skills (maybe balance this based on where the skills would usually appear for accuracy value and probably ignore the final boss's skills :derpmouse:), and/or chest loot. Be creative I bet there are a lot more interesting things to randomize than what I'm suggesting here!
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Character Stuff: (not too many complaints for most of the lineup...)

Artemis:
-The +2 defense if damaged gain two +3 stamina dice skill feels really terrible in my experience as in many/most situations if you were to take damage you would much rather deal damage or use your 2 damage to enemy while self applying 1 damage with speed priority as better uses for losing life. Maybe change this to +2 defence, gain a +2 atk dice next turn, if damaged gain two +2 stamina dice. This way you don't become the only character who lacks any consistant way to generate bonus value of +2 defence blocking. Not to mention that having a skill that wants you to take damage for it's bonus is making itself more difficult to even trigger it by giving yourself defence.
-Along the same lines up there you could change the focus skill on this character and/or engage skill on this character have when damaged effects like the focus skill generating additional die when you get damaged and/or the engage skill dealing +1 damage when damaged rather than yourself dealing 1 damage to self to deal +1 damage though this does punish speed priority plays and may be a an arugable nerf to a skill that was kinda just ok 7 accuracy skill as the self damage is usually not worth the +1 damage as Artemis snowballs really hard at 1 health (i.e. at 1 health you forcably need 5 energy even use this making it worse than Hamir's 7 accuracy costing only 3 energy (unless Artemis's ability doesn't work at 1 health. I don't know as i've never had a point where I needed it)). Maybe make the enemy get reduced stats on the next turn would make this more valuable instead of basically hitting a hard capped limit of use. Perhaps i'm balding and I should be using the pan with Artemis.

Slade:
-This character is probably very overtuned but I don't know what i'd change. Maybe increase the accuracy 7 gold cost for increased damage? Maybe increase the amount of stamina needed to dodge with speed priority?
-With the item that gives 5 gold when you block or evade you basically become god.

Fleet:
-"Perfectally balanced" as all things should be (still extremely strong). The 7 accuracy skill feels very balanced while lacking the the ability to do +1 damage. It's probably the 2 stamina given to you for using it.
-Maybe buff snack's secondary for above 3 stamina effect to make it better than using focus? I find myself usually going for focus always over it because it synergises with earrings really well. Basically just make the stat increases from the skill increase by 1 and/or maybe convert them to dice too? I also could understand the reasoning behind not buffing it as Fleet is really good already.

Hamir: (oh god where do I begin with the pain and suffering)
-His basic gameplay lacks the ability to gain stamina by himself unless the enemy does what you want it to do leading to really miserable situations where you get hardwalled as you can't make progress in either direction. This issue is fixed on other characters by having the ability check on skill which does a better job of tricking the AI to fight a losing battle.
-Lacks a direct gain of stamina through any of the skills in your disposal unless it would allow you to block which anti synergies with your passive ability for wanting you to stockpile energy as enemies would normally just choose a setup move over trying to deal damage to you if you meet the defence value threshold. (this is the only character without skills that can give you stamina directly)
-This would be where I would complain about losing energy on the last hit that kills the enemy causing even lower econ of stamina but it has been fixed. Bless
-Hamir Pretty much needs speed priority at all times for the ability to functionally work as ai will always play around you without it. Having Hamir at the slowest speed may be visually accurate to character or something but it makes the gameplay suffer as a result.
-It may be more productive to change the ability to be more agressive like +2 stamina on block -1 Stamina on attack, Gain a stamina dice based on half of your stamina (rounded up) and then maybe increase it by +1 as well but that part might not matter if other parts of the kit are fixed up (like being to generate stamina outside of this ability or items/equips). Not being able to use stamina to increase rolls is already a extreme level debuff that doesn't need to be worse to it to make it feel like a tradeoff.
-The Extend Skill on good average (+4 stamina dice) is barely worth more than focus causing the ability to be for the most part not of value to energy cost. It also doesn't help that since the +4 stamina dice can't be split having the +2 accuracy gives you access to one of the best tools in your kit for your ability: the skill React.
-The Pivot Skill is very difficult to use effectively at it's current point and on average you'll make just as much value if not more by just using pivot as usually your stamina dice will go the the stat you need most rather than just attack. The easy solution to fix this is just make it grab all your stamina dice from the 3 other stats and moving them to defense on connect.
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That's about all I got for now. There's probably more to talk about but writing this was exhausting. (btw. Some people might not know that the enemy will change skill depending on how you invest your dice causing them to be confused or rate the game worse. Maybe you might consider making a tutorial to teach them.) Also could you make the Overcoming Greed achievement a bit more detailed as it wants you to not use it on yourself rather than not use it at all as you are allowed to upgrade shops.

Gah i need to stop before I'm too far gone, I keep getting distracted. The game is great and I wish for it to get more content and the love it deserves. Thank you Devs for such a great game :cozysmitedaji:
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Showing 1-8 of 8 comments
Lord Kass Mar 3, 2023 @ 6:27am 
Wait, there's an item that gives +5 coins every dodge or block? So that's how the people at the top have 800+ coins.
Alphonia Mar 3, 2023 @ 8:25pm 
there's also an item for getting more gold on defeating an enemy as well as your 3 accuracy skill on slade giving 3 gold on connect. Lucky Clover can also lead to higher gold gains from getting higher tier items from chests and selling them.:ImoriBlep:
Fireally Mar 4, 2023 @ 11:27am 
Yeah, there's also an item that lets you spend 2 stamina and get a gold dice. You have ~83% chance of it being at least as good as the stamina spent to make it and 66% chance of it being better. It overshadows Hamir as a character since it lets anyone do what he does, but better, save it be the consistency he has with his dice.

I'd like Hamir to have a gold 6 at 10 stamina, gold 5 at 9, gold 4 at 7&8, gold 3 at 6&5, gold 2 at 4&3, and gold 1 at 2&1. Essentially just half value, rounded up instead of down, but you also get the 6 at his highest value. That way you can get a really good round to pop off when you extend like you can when Slade has a ton of cash, Fleet has stamina and extra dice, or Artemis when she has the fryingpan and/or apron.
Another possibility is to have him get a -1 on hit instead of -2, so if you block that round you end up slightly ahead when pivoting, but I can see that being too good as well.
Fuzedude Mar 4, 2023 @ 11:11pm 
Seconding the bestiary or an item journal inclusion in the journal. Would add an extra bit of collection hunting towards trying to find every single item/equipment, as well as give the player an in game resource for strategizing without waiting for someone to make a list on a wiki. Also some way to view the player character's stats/abilities when not in combat would be appreciated as well.

Tacking on some added suggestions/balancing for characters:
Hamir: Add an additional condition that when using a 'Technique' have Hamir gains 1 Stam. That way when the enemy AI doesn't attack and giving the 2 Stam for blocking scenario, Hamir doesn't remain stagnant. It also gives an opportunity to gain 3 stam, if the player can manipulate the AI into attacking into block.
Artemis: Have her ability to regenerate a heart only activate when it's she is at one heart. If the gameplay goal of Artemis is to maximize her abilities when at 1 heart, then I have to potentially chew through 4 hearts worth to get her to that state, and then I have to regain all that stam back again anyway.
Another change would be to change her burn ability from giving +2 Def to +2 Stam. If she's looking to get hit anyway, the +2 Stam would be more beneficial towards building up stam for her regenerating ability.
Fleet: I'd change her Snack ability to an "if below 7 stam, gain +3 stam" and "if above 7 stam, Heal 1 Heart". She's a bit of a snowballing type character that has to trade blows to deal damage, so having some way to recoup that damage would help.
Slade: For his Squat ability, swapping the granting of the attack die and the stam bonus based on block. Slade already has difficulty building up his defense with the dice nerf, and it would give a defensive, non-gold paying option to building stam.
Alphonia Mar 5, 2023 @ 12:16am 
Slade squat ability does not need to be changed. It is already an extremely efficient way of getting defense and building stamina for free. Just grab the atk dice (preferably there is only one there or something) and now the damage pressure from the enemy will be low enough that with speed priority you can just squat and generally speaking get 2 stamina back for free on top of a +2 atk dice advantage. If anything I feel the 6 accuracy skill needs a rework the more I think about it as I don't think i had ever used the skill ever in the story or my challenge runs. It already requires like 2 dice in 2 seperate slots just to justify using it as you need high accuracy and likely high speed just so you even get the defense and then you will in most situations have at max 1-2 dice in the slot (more likely just 1 without items) causing it to be significantly more worthless than your accuracy 2 skill which you will generally speaking not need to build additional dice for and/or your accuracy 5 skill as it reduces the enemy atk stat by 2 while also granting you a stamina on hit. Maybe it should just be reworked to giving you +3 defense instantly and if you have 5 gold you pay it for a gain of +2 to all stats next turn or something.:lunar2020thinkingtiger:
Fuzedude Mar 5, 2023 @ 2:30am 
The issue with squat isn't the efficiency, it's that it requires the AI to attack into Slade to activate the Block requirement, which requires either lucky RNG dice drafting or spending stam to adjust the stat numbers to trick the AI into attacking, which goes against the whole point of trying to build stam. Making the extra attack dice as a result of blocking would still reward the player for good RNG or number adjusting, but Slade's damage avoidance gimmick wouldn't be so heavily reliant on the AI.
I do think that the (6) skill is dice expensive, since you only get 3 dice per draft, so you'd need additional dice from other skills or equipment to make full use of the ability. One suggestion would be that instead of 5 gold to buy stam and def for that turn, what bribe did was allow Slade to lock up a dice choice the next draft for 5 gold, like what some of the mini-bosses will do. It gives some interesting risk management, since you could end up with two high number atk dice from the draft, or go for the guaranteed extra two dice from sprint.
Alphonia Mar 5, 2023 @ 2:49am 
For me on most of my runs I almost never have trouble forcing an enemy into a block situation during story or challenge runs. Only specific enemies like the pre-final boss that gets stamina based on additional dice triggers have ever really given me trouble on it. I think in those manipulate enemy to attack situations I usually have 1-2 defense lower than their attack as if you reach the raw defense threshold they generally simply choose to attack rather than stall. Generally speaking in those scenarios you can just yeet your other dice into speed that were in attack, defense (dont go lower than 2 under their attack), and accuracy into speed if you don't already meet the outspeed enemy requirement (at or above speed) if you had taken the high attack dice at the start leaving them at min attack. I normally build +2 defense from the forge onto him just to make these situations more consistent. It also helps that you start at like base 3 speed which helps for consistency rather than the 1 speed on Hamir which makes him counter intuitive with his passive mechanic.
Fuzedude Mar 5, 2023 @ 4:17am 
By achieving a block situation, the outcome will still be the same, it's what happens when a block situation doesn't occur, where I think that having the 2 stam would be better suited to Slade instead of a +2 Atk dice the next turn.
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