HITMAN World of Assassination

HITMAN World of Assassination

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Xan69 Jan 31, 2023 @ 7:34pm
2
LOST ALL OF MY GEAR IN FREELANCER???
After dying and losing a mission, the losing condition was that the campaign is over and the syndicate is gone. I lost all of my gear like the poisons and dart guns but I keep my guns and weapons of the sort. Anyone know why it does that in freelancer mode?
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Showing 1-15 of 43 comments
Kunovega Jan 31, 2023 @ 7:44pm 
Try actually watching the instructions and listening to what you're told.
SakuraKoi Jan 31, 2023 @ 7:44pm 
It's because of arbitary balancing because nothing says 'bad design' more than mechanics which add nothing and only remove while making no sense whatsoever.

They did and do remove a lot after all, like the ability choose a starting location. Hokkaido Morgue, Dartmoor Roof and Colorado Water Tower were 47s smartest choices so far.

Incidentally I like the Stock Market the most so far... or not, since one can't actually trade in and save money before failing. One does only lose or gain money instantly.
DyD&Marina Jan 31, 2023 @ 10:12pm 
Originally posted by SakuraKoi:
It's because of arbitary balancing because nothing says 'bad design' more than mechanics which add nothing and only remove while making no sense whatsoever.

They did and do remove a lot after all, like the ability choose a starting location. Hokkaido Morgue, Dartmoor Roof and Colorado Water Tower were 47s smartest choices so far.

Incidentally I like the Stock Market the most so far... or not, since one can't actually trade in and save money before failing. One does only lose or gain money instantly.

This is basically the only thing working partially good in this gamemode.

In theory considered they advertised a rogue like gamemode we should lose everything we have, even things exposed in the safehouse.

True rogue like games have in the base/hub menù the collections of the things you have found but is only for remember what you found and whay you missing.

In true rogue like games you should find everything you have unlocked in the runs in random ways(chest, vendors, beating bosses and similar).

Instead Developers tried to do a strange mix of rogue lite and little rogue like.

Which the result isn't really good, creating a casual/cod oriented gamemodes, with barely any resamble of a rogue like game.
Duros001 Feb 1, 2023 @ 12:31am 
Originally posted by DyD&Marina:

In theory considered they advertised a rogue like gamemode we should lose everything we have, even things exposed in the safehouse.

True rogue like games have in the base/hub menù the collections of the things you have found but is only for remember what you found and whay you missing.

In true rogue like games you should find everything you have unlocked in the runs in random ways(chest, vendors, beating bosses and similar).

Instead Developers tried to do a strange mix of rogue lite and little rogue like. *snip*

IRK, A rogue like/ rogue like have learnable/predictable loops, consistency, some RNG and a steady persistent unlock system

--RNG: is great for longevity when done well, I genuinely feel that procedural content is the future of gaming, devs can spend 5 years hand crafting a story, that we can devour in a week, and get bored of in 3 months. Devs can spend 5 years making a procedural content system, and we have fun content until we get bored of gameplay mechanics (and that length of time depends on how good the game mechanics are). The target selecting RNG is fine, what needs improving is the procedural AI given to targets: Eat/drink, walk to random spots and start texting, procedurally generate an AI walking path by linking to current AI paths, grabbing a few nodes from one path and switch to the next. Grab around 15 path nodes and loop them.

I like the Safe-house mastery items, the mushrooms, the nails, etc, it adds consistency and single use (in mission) items to plan around, but they are semi pointless if you don’t know your target, and are contingency options.

There should be a few (mind FEW) persistent items that once you unlock them they are available on each campaign start (say you get the 5mm disposable pistol, a crowbar and one of each poison syringe), if you lose the gun/crowbar you lose it (this run), if you use a syringe it’s gone this run too. Fail the campaign, they respawn, finish the campaign and you get a token. Use the token to choose another item you have in your safe house to mark as “saved”, better items cost more tokens, so giving us a reason to win say 5 campaigns to perma-unlock (respawn on campaign start) the lock pick? Worth it in my opinion. We need long term goals and “perks”.

Make us work for it sure, but give us goals to strive for
DyD&Marina Feb 1, 2023 @ 3:04am 
Originally posted by Duros001:

IRK, A rogue like/ rogue like have learnable/predictable loops, consistency, some RNG and a steady persistent unlock system

--RNG: is great for longevity when done well, I genuinely feel that procedural content is the future of gaming, devs can spend 5 years hand crafting a story, that we can devour in a week, and get bored of in 3 months. Devs can spend 5 years making a procedural content system, and we have fun content until we get bored of gameplay mechanics (and that length of time depends on how good the game mechanics are). The target selecting RNG is fine, what needs improving is the procedural AI given to targets: Eat/drink, walk to random spots and start texting, procedurally generate an AI walking path by linking to current AI paths, grabbing a few nodes from one path and switch to the next. Grab around 15 path nodes and loop them.

I like the Safe-house mastery items, the mushrooms, the nails, etc, it adds consistency and single use (in mission) items to plan around, but they are semi pointless if you don’t know your target, and are contingency options.

There should be a few (mind FEW) persistent items that once you unlock them they are available on each campaign start (say you get the 5mm disposable pistol, a crowbar and one of each poison syringe), if you lose the gun/crowbar you lose it (this run), if you use a syringe it’s gone this run too. Fail the campaign, they respawn, finish the campaign and you get a token. Use the token to choose another item you have in your safe house to mark as “saved”, better items cost more tokens, so giving us a reason to win say 5 campaigns to perma-unlock (respawn on campaign start) the lock pick? Worth it in my opinion. We need long term goals and “perks”.

Make us work for it sure, but give us goals to strive for

No a rogue like games not have persistant unlock system, every losed/winned run reset every weapons/tools/skills you have obtained in true rogue like games.

You can find new things in the next runs if you unlock, but you can't keep anything or starting the run with new items.

Some games unlock classes/hero but is a different things.

You are talking instead of rogue lite games.

The problem is principally the pool of random selectable npc.

Is more easy to use npc have already the right pathing behaviour instead add pathing behaviour to npc don't have it.

The fact is Developers advertised a rogue like gamemode, all this semi or permanent unlocks simple aren't adapt to a rogue like gamemode, because make it too easy.

Developers should use the boxes in the maps to give items to the players.

The items random chance should weighted based on the syindicate choiced.

Then the players should exploring the maps to find this items and use them to finish the missions/side quests if they have the skills to do it.

This is how should work the freelancer gamemode considered was advertised like rogue like.

Instead we have a strange mix of rogue lite and rogue like, with a orientation to casual/cod action gameplay styile forced in hardcore.

Which make the difficulty alot lower and remove completely control and planning.

Actually Freelancer is totally the opposite of what the developers had advertised.
Last edited by DyD&Marina; Feb 1, 2023 @ 3:05am
Epero Feb 1, 2023 @ 3:11am 
Originally posted by DyD&Marina:
This is basically the only thing working partially good in this gamemode.

In theory considered they advertised a rogue like gamemode we should lose everything we have, even things exposed in the safehouse.

True rogue like games have in the base/hub menù the collections of the things you have found but is only for remember what you found and whay you missing.

In true rogue like games you should find everything you have unlocked in the runs in random ways(chest, vendors, beating bosses and similar).

Instead Developers tried to do a strange mix of rogue lite and little rogue like.

Which the result isn't really good, creating a casual/cod oriented gamemodes, with barely any resamble of a rogue like game.
This can´t be true rogue like game. Loosing all - there will be no point of making collection in house. And also it make no sense - I don´t play rogue like games, maybe there is some magic explanation.
And this is stealth game. You can´t have objectives to kill with epic weapon, or specific weapon or specific explosive device and just hope that you will find randomly things you need

Originally posted by Duros001:


--RNG: is great for longevity when done well, I genuinely feel that procedural content is the future of gaming, devs can spend 5 years hand crafting a story, that we can devour in a week, and get bored of in 3 months. Devs can spend 5 years making a procedural content system, and we have fun content until we get bored of gameplay mechanics (and that length of time depends on how good the game mechanics are). The target selecting RNG is fine, what needs improving is the procedural AI given to targets: Eat/drink, walk to random spots and start texting, procedurally generate an AI walking path by linking to current AI paths, grabbing a few nodes from one path and switch to the next. Grab around 15 path nodes and loop them.

I like the Safe-house mastery items, the mushrooms, the nails, etc, it adds consistency and single use (in mission) items to plan around, but they are semi pointless if you don’t know your target, and are contingency options.

There should be a few (mind FEW) persistent items that once you unlock them they are available on each campaign start (say you get the 5mm disposable pistol, a crowbar and one of each poison syringe), if you lose the gun/crowbar you lose it (this run), if you use a syringe it’s gone this run too. Fail the campaign, they respawn, finish the campaign and you get a token. Use the token to choose another item you have in your safe house to mark as “saved”, better items cost more tokens, so giving us a reason to win say 5 campaigns to perma-unlock (respawn on campaign start) the lock pick? Worth it in my opinion. We need long term goals and “perks”.

Make us work for it sure, but give us goals to strive for
I don´t think this is the future. Of course some people like it, same as MMO games. But not all. Many people, me included, like story, world that I affect by my actions, interaction with NPCs, dialogues, choices. I love Hitman series. But this isn´t hitman. No reason to be Silent Assassin unless there is specific challenge for it. There are no special scenes, stories, dialgoues, this is just hybrid between contracts and escalations. Except gain full collection of weapons and unlock all items in house, there is no reason for playing except playing. I am not invested in it.
You are totally right that story content is maked for years and finish in few weeks, or hours, depending on game. Same as in Skyrim, I didn´t care about generic quest "go kill bandit leader"; "go bring item from random dungeon" because it is random and don´t bulit world, story, don´t mean any progress for your characters.

And you are right with stupid system of poisons. If using syringe makes it disappear, there is no point to go after syndicates that requires kills with poison. It isn´t fun to always acquire items for every new mission. And loosing items permanent don´t motivate people to take higher risks challenges.
Even starting hard mode makes you loos things you obtain. Simply silly.

And many things is missing in house. Of course maybe there will be added with cosmetics, but so far there is just nail, newspaper, firepoker, scalpel, stetoscope. But branding iron, kitchen knife, cleaver, many stupdi, useless things are missing. I was hoping that we would be able to collect everything for our hosue.
larsingem Feb 1, 2023 @ 3:39am 
Call the game mode whatever name you want. Losing all the gear anytime you die, especially in a game as finicky as Hitman can be is retarded. If you keep things at your base (in a hidden bunker, no less) there is no reason why you should lose any of the gear you leave at base. This would make the risk an reward your responsibility. While keeping gear at base would keep it safe, payout and difficulty on missions might be diminished. Losing half the money plus all guns and tools brought on the mission is already quite harsh. Not all of us enjoy arbitrarily getting forced to play 8 hours to get back to where you were before reset. It kills the fun of the game and combined with the limit on the tools you can bring makes a lot of equipment never or hardly ever get used at all. Its an arbitrary setback. For those that want to play like that, maybe deleting all tools, maybe even all gear should be an option you can toggle as we are only playing against ourselves either way.
DyD&Marina Feb 1, 2023 @ 3:54am 
Originally posted by Epero:
This can´t be true rogue like game. Loosing all - there will be no point of making collection in house. And also it make no sense - I don´t play rogue like games, maybe there is some magic explanation.
And this is stealth game. You can´t have objectives to kill with epic weapon, or specific weapon or specific explosive device and just hope that you will find randomly things you need

Instead can be worked like a true rogue like mode really easily.

Various rogue like games have the collections of things you have unlocked.

Simple you can take them in the new run from the start, you find them inside the run.

Actually Freelancer is all but stealth, you can easily kill target without really care if someone find the body or if kill all the witness or prepare some alternate disguise you can even kill in the open without care of anything.

Instead you can if Developers use the boxes they placed in the maps.

One of the boxes garantuee an epic items or specific items to complete side quests.

Players will need to explore the map to find the right box, with more risk of enter in place where can't have access.

This is even how in some way rogue like work, more chests and more you explore the maps, more you get strong weapons/skills, but you risk to get damage more and risk to have too few health for boss.

Risk/reward, this is how rogue like work.

Freelancer instead is easy cod/casual oriented gamemode with rogue lite elements and very little rogue like element in hardcore.
DyD&Marina Feb 1, 2023 @ 3:55am 
Originally posted by larsingem:
Call the game mode whatever name you want. Losing all the gear anytime you die, especially in a game as finicky as Hitman can be is retarded. If you keep things at your base (in a hidden bunker, no less) there is no reason why you should lose any of the gear you leave at base. This would make the risk an reward your responsibility. While keeping gear at base would keep it safe, payout and difficulty on missions might be diminished. Losing half the money plus all guns and tools brought on the mission is already quite harsh. Not all of us enjoy arbitrarily getting forced to play 8 hours to get back to where you were before reset. It kills the fun of the game and combined with the limit on the tools you can bring makes a lot of equipment never or hardly ever get used at all. Its an arbitrary setback. For those that want to play like that, maybe deleting all tools, maybe even all gear should be an option you can toggle as we are only playing against ourselves either way.

Reset all you earned during a run is how rogue like work.

You will unlock new things you can find in the next run, this is how rogue like work.

If you read my comment above i writed how the gamemode should work in a rogue like mode to give you the needed weapons/tools.

Actually Freelancer isn't anything of what Developers advertised and seems only an attempt to lure casuals players.
Last edited by DyD&Marina; Feb 1, 2023 @ 3:56am
hughJ Feb 1, 2023 @ 4:00am 
Originally posted by Epero:
This can´t be true rogue like game. Loosing all - there will be no point of making collection in house. And also it make no sense - I don´t play rogue like games, maybe there is some magic explanation.

A "rogue-like" is a genre of games that are a similar to the game 'Rogue'.

Rogue is a game from 1980; a time before home computers had hard drives, so games generally didn't have saved persistence/progression from one session to the next. Whether those design constraints still have merit in 2023 is up for debate.

Just enjoy this for what it is: another repackaging of 2016's Hitman and the map packs called Hitman2 and Hitman3. It's not meant to be much more than that. I'd expect IOI to be more concerned with Bond and whatever else they're working on.
SakuraKoi Feb 1, 2023 @ 4:09am 
Originally posted by DyD&Marina:
Instead Developers tried to do a strange mix of rogue lite and little rogue like.
Basically, Contract Mode, Escalations and Elusive Targets are the Rogue 'like' modes where everything is reset and the entry conditions always the same (some do allow one to choose some gear or starting positions). They are not randomly generated so they are not true scotsman but Contracts are as random as it can get...

They did indeed announce it as
HITMAN 3 Freelancer is a brand new, single-player mode that introduces rogue-like elements, strategic planning and a customisable safehouse.
(https://ioi.dk/?panel=hitman%2Fblogs%2F2022%2Fhitman-3-road-to-freelancer)
but alas they might have not played the rogue-lites which they tried to emulate. Both 'The Binding of Isaac (Rebirth)' and Rogue Legacy (2) garnered a lot of attention.

The Binding of Isaac makes you progress to several game stages as well which become progressively more difficult and you have to unlock them first. Meanwhile one unlocks items that can be found. Hitman Freelancer only gets progressively more difficult and already starts at Master.

Rogue Legacy has one find gold and blueprints to upgrade oneself and can tackle ever stronger loops (New Game+), nothing is ever lost and just like in Isaac, one has a wealth of choices to start the run with. Rebirth and Rogue Legacy 2 further increased the characters (more starting gear/parameters or different weapons and talents).

Here it's one thing if they are consumables like Explosives, Keycards and Poisons, that sure adds to it but it's a gamers nature to choose the easy way which is a silenced headshot from afar. Only few disregard that and challenge themselves to take bigger risk with smaller rewards. Those could also just play Contracts/Elusive Target Arcade and achieve the optional conditions.

I'm all for adding default 'Silent Assassin' rewards or penalties to the economy, reward those who stalk, distract and remove a target but it should be possible in the first place... and made fun. The announcement is actually wrong about the strategic planning, it's all tactics.
zerk Feb 1, 2023 @ 4:25am 
Originally posted by Not Xander:
After dying and losing a mission, the losing condition was that the campaign is over and the syndicate is gone. I lost all of my gear like the poisons and dart guns but I keep my guns and weapons of the sort. Anyone know why it does that in freelancer mode?

I tried starting a thread about silenced pistols for this reason.

Turns out that you should learn to not use weapons that go on the wall, because if you die with them you have to find them again or buy them.

Hackl S9 Covert is one of those pistols, and for campaign start, Sgail is routinely played if I am short on pistols. As I still do silly things and fail lots of campaigns. And need to learn more maps with accessible pistols, as this is my crutch for ambushing guards near a pile of bodies!

This mechanic is a huge benefit to Freelancer and it's rogue like nature, with a weapon wall and Safehouse that can be scavanged for the unusual items. Banana being top notch, most useful, distraction, melee and pacify trap. As soon as you can go outside, you can get a long list of items. IInfirmary downstairs have stethoscope and scalpel.... Freelancer to me is much closer to the first games in the franchise. There is a whole new learning curve and finding playstyles in those rogue-like game mode.

A hard lesson for me was to do alerted maps first, as the showdown missions are much harder for them. And doing well up till showdown prevents this as well. If you have one silenced weapon, don't always bring it unless you need it for cameras and such. Try and get through no matter what, and escape before you die if main targets and objectives fail for the guns and stuff. No other mode encourage thinking about an escape plan and so many other things. Don't know if anyone is comfortable enough for a stream in this mode yet, but could work well; things tend to go bad, and not too terrible if it is a careless move failing a showdown at the last moments.

Considering starting to cheese things more often with expendable shotguns and assault rifles.
Last edited by zerk; Feb 1, 2023 @ 4:27am
DyD&Marina Feb 1, 2023 @ 4:39am 
Originally posted by SakuraKoi:
Originally posted by DyD&Marina:
Instead Developers tried to do a strange mix of rogue lite and little rogue like.
Basically, Contract Mode, Escalations and Elusive Targets are the Rogue 'like' modes where everything is reset and the entry conditions always the same (some do allow one to choose some gear or starting positions). They are not randomly generated so they are not true scotsman but Contracts are as random as it can get...

They did indeed announce it as
HITMAN 3 Freelancer is a brand new, single-player mode that introduces rogue-like elements, strategic planning and a customisable safehouse.
(https://ioi.dk/?panel=hitman%2Fblogs%2F2022%2Fhitman-3-road-to-freelancer)
but alas they might have not played the rogue-lites which they tried to emulate. Both 'The Binding of Isaac (Rebirth)' and Rogue Legacy (2) garnered a lot of attention.

The Binding of Isaac makes you progress to several game stages as well which become progressively more difficult and you have to unlock them first. Meanwhile one unlocks items that can be found. Hitman Freelancer only gets progressively more difficult and already starts at Master.

Rogue Legacy has one find gold and blueprints to upgrade oneself and can tackle ever stronger loops (New Game+), nothing is ever lost and just like in Isaac, one has a wealth of choices to start the run with. Rebirth and Rogue Legacy 2 further increased the characters (more starting gear/parameters or different weapons and talents).

Here it's one thing if they are consumables like Explosives, Keycards and Poisons, that sure adds to it but it's a gamers nature to choose the easy way which is a silenced headshot from afar. Only few disregard that and challenge themselves to take bigger risk with smaller rewards. Those could also just play Contracts/Elusive Target Arcade and achieve the optional conditions.

I'm all for adding default 'Silent Assassin' rewards or penalties to the economy, reward those who stalk, distract and remove a target but it should be possible in the first place... and made fun. The announcement is actually wrong about the strategic planning, it's all tactics.

You are doing alot of confusion about rogue lite and rogue like.

Same confusions i see in this gamemode, Developers was really confused between rogue like and rogue lite.

And no Freelancer become very quickly easier.

And by quickly i mean when you find the first silenced weapons the difficulty is finished.

Game ignore any attempt to make the kill harder, not care for 99% of the game if you kill in open, if you have witness or if you hide the corpse.

There is no need of planning or tactics.

Only if you want to do the side quests you can need some tactics and planning.

But they are optional and many times not possible thanks for the luck based random way to find items and some targets can't even be killed in this way.

Really this gamemode is simple a cod/casual oriented gamemode, an attempt to lure people want to play hitman like a cod.
zerk Feb 1, 2023 @ 5:16am 
Originally posted by DyD&Marina:
There is no need of planning or tactics.

Only if you want to do the side quests you can need some tactics and planning.

But they are optional and many times not possible thanks for the luck based random way to find items and some targets can't even be killed in this way.

Really this gamemode is simple a cod/casual oriented gamemode, an attempt to lure people want to play hitman like a cod.

To be purist, safe house was always a core part of the game. Would make just as much sense to make Freelancer the core of the game, and introduce story aspects, or be something you do when you have the right toolbox for it.

Game-console achievement grind is the definition of casual though?
You never know what's next, but "remastering" the whole soup would make a lot of sense.
This mode changes quite a lot for me at least.

Would be a very very long game, as Hitman 47, freelancer remastered trilogy.
Last edited by zerk; Feb 1, 2023 @ 5:17am
Kunovega Feb 1, 2023 @ 9:48am 
Let's be more clear. Freelancer is a rogue-lite not a rogue-like.
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Date Posted: Jan 31, 2023 @ 7:34pm
Posts: 43