Timers?

[Ruinzifra]

I had the game in my cart... So glad I started reading the reviews... Timers? Really? What a terrible decision. Removed from cart... Hopefully they will be removed or something so I can try the game...

[norker77]

They've just implement a temporary fix for timers in the missions most affected and have stated they will likely make it so you can adjust or remove them in the difficulty settings.
With the current fix it feels relaxed unless you skip turns to get off cool-downs (YMMV).

I'm happy right now, devs seem very responsive and open to critique.

[WarrenWelles]

There is nothing inherently wrong with timers. Most strategy games need some sort of timer for there to be any sort of challenge, Xcom2 has plenty of missions with timers (more or less). A better solution than pure timers tends to be increasing amounts of reinforcements after turn x so that you will be in deep trouble if you don't move quickly in the first place.

[LDiCesare]

I strongly dislike timers and utterly hate reinforcements.
This game is full of both.
Reinforcements coming as a surprise with little or no narrative explanation is a big no for me. You can't really plan what to do unless you know that they are going to come at some point (through meta-knowledge or abusing save-load).
One of my preferred game is Battle Brothers, where you have neither. They are not required at all.
Here the rationale was to avoid abuse of cooldowns. I think the solution they chose is bad and hope they find something better in the long run.

[The_Professor]

Originally posted by LDiCesare:

I strongly dislike timers and utterly hate reinforcements.
This game is full of both.
Reinforcements coming as a surprise with little or no narrative explanation is a big no for me. You can't really plan what to do unless you know that they are going to come at some point (through meta-knowledge or abusing save-load).
One of my preferred game is Battle Brothers, where you have neither. They are not required at all.
Here the rationale was to avoid abuse of cooldowns. I think the solution they chose is bad and hope they find something better in the long run.

I agree, theres gotta be better design than "timers". I literally took it out of my cart like the OP the second i saw this nonsense. More aggressive AI, or settings we can adjust is 1000% better than shatty mission timers.... i hope they fire that guy lol

[Kyle]

Respectfully, I disagree. Timers add tension to otherwise easy missions. When X-Com added timers the game became substantially more challenging. And, personally, I found the timers in this game to be more than long enough. I have only played 2 missions with timers so far, but in both of them I had at least 4 turns remaining when the mission was completed.

That being said, an "easy" mode with the ability to shut them off would cater to those who do not like feeling "rushed" and would prefer a more casual gameplay experience, which I believe they said in the most recent patch notes that they are working on implementing.

[Spicy Vortex]

Originally posted by Kyle:

That being said, an "easy" mode with the ability to shut them off would cater to those who do not like feeling "rushed" and would prefer a more casual gameplay experience

Absence of timers doesn't necessarily imply "easy" or casual. Timers are not "hardcore" or non-casual, they just make it easier for the designers to channel players through a predictable path, usually to mask issues with balancing or tactical freedom.

[norker77]

Originally posted by Kyle:

Respectfully, I disagree. Timers add tension to otherwise easy missions. When X-Com added timers the game became substantially more challenging. And, personally, I found the timers in this game to be more than long enough. I have only played 2 missions with timers so far, but in both of them I had at least 4 turns remaining when the mission was completed.

That being said, an "easy" mode with the ability to shut them off would cater to those who do not like feeling "rushed" and would prefer a more casual gameplay experience, which I believe they said in the most recent patch notes that they are working on implementing.

In XCOM those timers were for additional rewards, so it was a risk vs. reward situation. Here it is: Miss the timer and mission is lost and all your characters are dead/wounded.
That is a difference.

[LDiCesare]

Originally posted by Kyle:

Respectfully, I disagree. Timers add tension to otherwise easy missions. When X-Com added timers the game became substantially more challenging. And, personally, I found the timers in this game to be more than long enough. I have only played 2 missions with timers so far, but in both of them I had at least 4 turns remaining when the mission was completed.

The point is not difficulty, it's stress.
I suppose it depends what you expect from a game.
If I play a turn-based game, I don't want arbitrary time constraints.

I'm fine with limited timers or reinforcements when they make sense (e.g. Showgunners does that well).
I'm not fine when I have an arbitrary timeout with absolutely no way of knowing how long I need to do it.
The first skirmish had a timer of 13. My reaction was : "So, if I need 14 turns to do it, I'll lose and have to redo it from scratch, that's about wasting 1 hour." That made me want to shelve the game. When I restarted after they upped the timer to 18, it took me just 5 or 6 turns.
The duration of the timer was irrelevant. In fact, the longer it is, the more frightening it is because you have no information allowing you to do any kind of planning for the mission and you know you'll have to replay through a lot of moves you're not certain you'll like (such as moving your character from sub-skirmish 1 to sub-skirmish 2).

That lack of informaiton is the biggest problem. In that same skirmish, I saw that you had 2 groups of enemies next to each other, so if you attacked a guy from one group, those 5 meters away didn't react. If you got spotted by those guys 5 meters away, then both groups reacted... Because you have no information on which character belongs to which group, you cannot make an informed decision on the better approach. That's extremely frustrating.

A timer would be bearable if you saw, from the start, what you are supposed to do. The game doesn't do that.

[mayrc]

Lol i was also interested when i read this is the ultimate Timer game..... not a chance to spend a dime on it.
Games with timelimits are 1990 style.
Noone want that anymore. Games must be challenging and fun. But timers where NEVER EVER FUN. They just annoying and stressing.

Its painfull to see some games still try to bother customers with limited time.

[sno]

i regret i cant refund this

[Kyle]

From the latest patch notes:

"We are currently working on a way for you to add more turns to these timers or remove them entirely through the difficulty settings. We also plan to open other parameters in these settings to allow you to customize your experience for a more enjoyable gameplay. While this is not ready yet, we wanted to reduce the pressure in Skirmishes and Capture Target modes, which seem to be the most problematic."

So, this is being solved. Like I said, I personally enjoy the "stress" (I call it "tension") of the timers. Given enough time, you can just sit back and "overwatch" with archers and wait out cooldowns to suit your needs while staying away from the enemy. Which is not a criticism of anyone's playstyle, it is just not for me. But it seems the devs are working on making it better for everyone, which is good. So if you hate the timers, it looks like you just have a wait a bit. In the meantime they have already increased the duration so they are not as tight.

[mayrc]

well that means timers are there to stay and get only away if you play it on easy?
Yeah... great solution.
If a game can only be challenging due to timers. Chances are high that the AI sucks so hard that its borderline ridiculous to play without timers.

[boblywobly]

i was really hoping for the heir to Darklands...