Suikoden vs Eiyuden: There are no sense of stakes

[👁]

A big negative for me was that contrasting with Suikoden, there's no real sense of stakes in the story.

Suikoden does a very good job very early on to introduce you to characters and locations that are charming and pleasant then destroys them to give you a sense of stakes for what it means if the other side wins.

Then it does a good job at humanizing the enemy even as you see that they've committed atrocities, you can't help but respect some of the people on the other side, because in Suikoden there are nations and factions and characters caught up in war with reasons to fight and dreams you can relate to even when they're on the wrong side.

In Suikoden 2 when Joey assassinated the mayor of Muse that was a huge moment, a major turning point. When Luca Blight burned Ryube Village it was one of the most iconic moments in JRPG history for me, and then the party went to find Pilika's home destroyed and the little girl mute from trauma.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3321140458
There's never a moment like that in Eiyuden Chronicle. The closest we get is when the Dux is confirmed to be doing unethical human experiments and that comes very late in the game and since it's all random NPCs with no connection to the player it doesn't carry the weight and emotional impact it could have.

Even when the hero's Village gets burned it only has an impact for a little while because no one dies and the village gets rebuilt like nothing happened.

[The_Box]

Originally posted by 👁:

A big negative for me was that contrasting with Suikoden, there's no real sense of stakes in the story.

Suikoden does a very good job very early on to introduce you to characters and locations that are charming and pleasant then destroys them to give you a sense of stakes for what it means if the other side wins.

Then it does a good job at humanizing the enemy even as you see that they've committed atrocities, you can't help but respect some of the people on the other side, because in Suikoden there are nations and factions and characters caught up in war with reasons to fight and dreams you can relate to even when they're on the wrong side.

In Suikoden 2 when Joey assassinated the mayor of Muse that was a huge moment, a major turning point. When Luca Blight burned Ryube Village it was one of the most iconic moments in JRPG history for me, and then the party went to find Pilika's home destroyed and the little girl mute from trauma.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3321140458
There's never a moment like that in Eiyuden Chronicle. The closest we get is when the Dux is confirmed to be doing unethical human experiments and that comes very late in the game and since it's all random NPCs with no connection to the player it doesn't carry the weight and emotional impact it could have.

Even when the hero's Village gets burned it only has an impact for a little while because no one dies and the village gets rebuilt like nothing happened.

That was honestly my biggest complaint to. The villain never really felt like a villain. Even his motivations were objectively good. More than anything, it felt like he just lost his way.

Hell, even the towns that get taken over see basically no change pre and post occupation, nobody's the slightest bit put out. It's hard to feel invested in saving the world when the world doesn't actually feel like it's in any real danger.

[brianloveslisa]

idk i just didn't like his smug smile :D also he had kind of a punch-able face

[👁]

Originally posted by brianloveslisa:

idk i just didn't like his smug smile :D also he had kind of a punch-able face

True

[Resolute]

The story does feel a bit sanitized. Cities are conquered but that really means nothing. These political battles of these scheming nobles did not even have any effect on common citizens. Nowa is a righteous orphan but that doesn't even connect to the main story. He was recruited to be the face of the alliance just because that sounded good. There is not a sense that he has a real moral imperative to be doing this. It is an okay plot point with other characters if Nowa kind of has fake manufactured moral superiority and doesnt even know why he is fighting. However, that plot doesnt really go anywhere and we the audience are not being tricked by this.

[catanbros]

Originally posted by Resolute:

The story does feel a bit sanitized. Cities are conquered but that really means nothing. These political battles of these scheming nobles did not even have any effect on common citizens. Nowa is a righteous orphan but that doesn't even connect to the main story. He was recruited to be the face of the alliance just because that sounded good. There is not a sense that he has a real moral imperative to be doing this. It is an okay plot point with other characters if Nowa kind of has fake manufactured moral superiority and doesnt even know why he is fighting. However, that plot doesnt really go anywhere and we the audience are not being tricked by this.

its not a bit sanitized, IT IS TOO SANITIZED.

If you check the storylines between each suikoden game, there were so many pivotal moments in-game.

1 had cities razed to the ground not just 1 but multiple and on top of that the protagonist had to fight and KILL his dad to gain freedom. that is hardcore....

2 had two best freinds eventually fight against one another and KILL one another as an option but also included atrocities like the antagonist mom incident and also the slaughter wholesale of not just a town but the false flag attack on THEIR OWN troops and etc etc.

3 had one of the protagonists KILL a child even though the battle was already over, towns razed not just one but multiple, mature topics like betrayal for the sake of saving the country etc etc.

4 i literally forgot because i lost that game sorry.

5 had a prince deposed and fighting for his life on the run along with other political groups abusing him for their own benefit. mature themes right there...... Also killing family friends and later fratricide.



lastly, the war battles from every single one of these was more than just 5 - 6, it was AT LEAST over 10+ battles for some.



i just dont get why is there so few in Eiyuden and also less tactics required.


Eiyuden seemed like the game wasnt made for adults or mature audiences and the devs just either dumbed it down to sell to kids or sanitized it to avoid any backlash. Its such as shame that the Devs couldnt utilize some of the aspects of suikoden 5 to make an improved game.

[👁]

Way too sanitized. I wanted to be punched in the gut by the story.

In Suikoden 2 you go to a village to get your runes then Luca Blight comes along and burns it, slaughtering the nice people you met and the entire family of a little girl your best friend and sister end up sort of adopting.

Then the Mayor of Muse seems cool and level headed and like a good leader to resist the Highland forces, and your best friend assassinates her to get back in with the Highland and try to change it from the inside, which he successfully does after you take down the main villain in the middle of the game, but by that point there's no turning back.

Well correction, your character can step down or run away actually, the character you play as can turn back, but the conflict's taken on a life of it's own and Shu, Viktor, and Flik are determined to see it through regardless of what you do.

One of the "bad ends" is the one where you step aside and let them do that and live a peaceful life with your sister, who otherwise ends up taking a bolt to the chest and dying by the end.

Suikoden 2 had this way of making you feel connected not just to characters but to locations, so there was a sense of stakes about what happened to them. I never really felt a sense of stakes playing Eiyuden Chronicle, I mean when Noah's village burned for a moment I felt invested but then no one was killed and it was rebuilt the same as it was like nothing ever happened.

After that there was no sense of stakes at all until it was finally revealed that the Dux does unethical human experimentation to weaponize lenses, which is definitely bad, but you have to play almost to the end of the game before that happens and it all happens to characters you don't know and have no investment in.