Playing The AI-assisted Re-Translation

[The_Box]

Let me open with a really clear disclaimer. Nothing here is intended as a dig at the expense of the people working on this project. Chatting with Tails privately, the goal of that project isn't really to be entertaining or superior, but simply accurate. And aside from a handful of grammar and punctuation errors, as far as I can tell, it's succeeding at that goal.

So, onwards. I decided to grab the Main Scenario 01 file from the github, the most up to date version of it at least, and dropped it into my bundle. I then played through what I'd call the 'first act', the segment from the opening through when you gain control of Nowa and company in the first town, twice. Once with English VA and the re-translated text so I could 1-to-1 the original localisation with the re-translated one, and then again with Japanese voices and the re-translated text for more of a 'subbed anime' kind of feel. I suspect the latter is more in line with what's intended.

Both plays were interesting in their own ways.

For the first, the re-translated script and the English VA, what mostly struck me was how much of it wasn't different. It's all been through DeepL and then an edit pass, so the lines are technically different just because of how that works, but the lines are, more often than not, functionally the same about 90% of the time. The other 10%, it still stays very close. But the tone, context and what was being communicated was always the same throughout.

What I mostly noticed was that everything was dialed way back in terms of characterization. All the characters felt largely the same, as though you didn't have unique individuals delivering the lines. The only exception to that that I could really pick out was, interestingly, Lian, who was still pretty dang extra throughout.


The second playthrough, with English re-translation and Japanese VA was also interesting. It became a bit harder to pick out differences, on account of not speaking Japanese obviously, but all in all, it did feel a bit better there, since I wasn't really doing a comparison anymore. That said, I still came away with a lot of similar feelings. The written dialog often didn't feel like it matched the tone of the character speaking it, and a lot of character was lost between different dialog segments. The writing felt very wooden and kind of flat, overall.


Again, no dig here. The purpose of the project is accuracy first and foremost. Tails said specifically that this isn't a rewrite, it's a retranslation. If the translation is flatter, that's the trade-off. I mostly just found it interesting just how much of it just isn't really different from the original localisation. A great many lines are even exactly the same, interestingly.

Honestly, for anybody curious, I'd really recommend grabbing what's been done so far and bundling it and then doing a quick new game+ playthrough to see the differences more plainly. Maybe even tweak it to turn off random encounters so you can just shoot through it all quick like. It really makes for a fascinating experience.

[NewMoonShadow]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Bucherebis:

OP is the last person you should ask for a honest feedback on the fan translation.

It's really not a surprise that a direct-translated version of the game falls flat in terms of characterization, it's actually the logical outcome. This is just literally what happens when you do that, especially between two languages as different as English and Japanese. A large portion of a character's personality will be dictated by word choices and such. That's just not something that carries directly between languages, and must be reconstructed in the target language, which is why games like this get a lot of extra work from the translators.

For instance, if a character is talking to their mother, whether they use "ma", "mother" mom", some other term of endearment, or even their first name will have a big impact on how the player sees them and the interaction. Direct translation doesn't account for this sort of thing.

See that time "Chrono Cross" gave nearly every recruitable character a different accent in English to make up for the lack of the many dialects that exist in Japanese.

[The_Box]

Diposting pertama kali oleh NewMoonShadow:

Diposting pertama kali oleh Bucherebis:

OP is the last person you should ask for a honest feedback on the fan translation.

It's really not a surprise that a direct-translated version of the game falls flat in terms of characterization, it's actually the logical outcome. This is just literally what happens when you do that, especially between two languages as different as English and Japanese. A large portion of a character's personality will be dictated by word choices and such. That's just not something that carries directly between languages, and must be reconstructed in the target language, which is why games like this get a lot of extra work from the translators.

See that time "Chrono Cross" gave nearly every recruitable character a different accent in English to make up for the lack of the many dialects that exist in Japanese.

And again, that's fine. The goal of the AI re-translation project was never to be 'better' or superior or anything. It's goal was to be as close to a literal 1-to-1 translation as can be managed, with only editing for grammar, and in that pursuit it's doing exactly what it set out to do.

To be very clear, I'm not saying 'it's bad, nobody should play it'. I'm, in fact, saying the exact opposite. Especially as they get further along. It's fascinating to grab and play through that version of the dialog. It's more flat and wooden, but that's not counter to the project's goal. They never set out to make it more entertaining or colorful, just more literally translated.

[NewMoonShadow]

Diposting pertama kali oleh The_Box:

Diposting pertama kali oleh NewMoonShadow:

It's really not a surprise that a direct-translated version of the game falls flat in terms of characterization, it's actually the logical outcome. This is just literally what happens when you do that, especially between two languages as different as English and Japanese. A large portion of a character's personality will be dictated by word choices and such. That's just not something that carries directly between languages, and must be reconstructed in the target language, which is why games like this get a lot of extra work from the translators.

See that time "Chrono Cross" gave nearly every recruitable character a different accent in English to make up for the lack of the many dialects that exist in Japanese.

And again, that's fine. The goal of the AI re-translation project was never to be 'better' or superior or anything. It's goal was to be as close to a literal 1-to-1 translation as can be managed, with only editing for grammar, and in that pursuit it's doing exactly what it set out to do.

To be very clear, I'm not saying 'it's bad, nobody should play it'. I'm, in fact, saying the exact opposite. Especially as they get further along. It's fascinating to grab and play through that version of the dialog. It's more flat and wooden, but that's not counter to the project's goal. They never set out to make it more entertaining or colorful, just more literally translated.

It's fine to do, but there's definitely something sad about a bunch of people dedicating months of their lives making an inferior version of the game out of pure spite towards the people who made the first version.

[Elron]

I appreciate you took the time and effort to do this comparison experiment and writing up a lengthy thread to discuss it.

That said, and as previously mentioned, you've spent the last 2 months non-stop defending the English localisation, discounting the number one complaint throughout much of the player reviews and forum feedback. I appreciate the tone of conversation has changed, and it feels your communication has been more good faith/genuine, but I cant look past the other 80% and consider this an impartial opinion.

If the dialogue is as similar as your state though, it should be little effort for R&B Studios to fix the most egregious lines that have been making the rounds on social media.

I'm still waiting for a full re-translation before I jump into the game. I'd prefer dialogue that is faithful to the original, even if it comes across more "wooden".

[Elron]

Diposting pertama kali oleh NewMoonShadow:

Diposting pertama kali oleh The_Box:

And again, that's fine. The goal of the AI re-translation project was never to be 'better' or superior or anything. It's goal was to be as close to a literal 1-to-1 translation as can be managed, with only editing for grammar, and in that pursuit it's doing exactly what it set out to do.

To be very clear, I'm not saying 'it's bad, nobody should play it'. I'm, in fact, saying the exact opposite. Especially as they get further along. It's fascinating to grab and play through that version of the dialog. It's more flat and wooden, but that's not counter to the project's goal. They never set out to make it more entertaining or colorful, just more literally translated.

It's fine to do, but there's definitely something sad about a bunch of people dedicating months of their lives making an inferior version of the game out of pure spite towards the people who made the first version.

Are you serious, a direct translation of Murayamas work is "inferior" in comparison to the crap that came out of Brian Greys ass?

[Zephyr Workshop]

Diposting pertama kali oleh roachit:

Diposting pertama kali oleh The_Box:

Let me open with a really clear disclaimer. Nothing here is intended as a dig

Stopped reading there.

For context, OP has been zealously waging war against anyone who criticizes the localization since the game's release and has gotten himself blocked by one of the people leading the retranslation efforts due to persistent hostility and bad faith.

You've been here for like 2 months crying about the translation with the standard anti-woke rhetoric

[Zephyr Workshop]

I feel really bad for the users here whose lives have been all- consumed by this game's translation. It's time to move on. Just play the game or don't lmao. It's ultimately your loss if you were filtered by a handful of screenshots in a game with one billion voiced lines of text.

[The_Box]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Elron:

I appreciate you took the time and effort to do this comparison experiment and writing up a lengthy thread to discuss it.

That said, and as previously mentioned, you've spent the last 2 months non-stop defending the English localisation, discounting the number one complaint throughout much of the player reviews and forum feedback. I appreciate the tone of conversation has changed, and it feels your communication has been more good faith/genuine, but I cant look past the other 80% and consider this an impartial opinion.

If the dialogue is as similar as your state though, it should be little effort for R&B Studios to fix the most egregious lines that have been making the rounds on social media.

I'm still waiting for a full re-translation before I jump into the game. I'd prefer dialogue that is faithful to the original, even if it comes across more "wooden".

My opinions haven't changed. I still think the English localisation is, by and large, fine. And I put over 100 hours into the game to get that completion trophy, so I suspect I've experienced more of that original localisation than the average person. I didn't install the dialog file with the thought of improving the game or wanting to fix anything, but in the interest of experiencing the work that's been done there and seeing what differences I could notice.

As I've said previously, it has its weak points, but I can't think of a single JRPG I've played that doesn't have it's weak points. Remember the laughing scene from FF10? Or lines like 'this guy are sick' from FF7? And that's not just localisation, many games have similar goofs in their original scripts.

These scripts are written, both original and localised, by humans. Occasionally a line just slips through, and that's the sort of thing we have to accept from humans.

Though again, the thing I found most interesting was how not different it was. I didn't come across any lines that felt like they'd been 'changed' in any substantial way, even when it comes to Lian, who people most frequently claim to have been altered the most. It mostly just felt like each character's personality had been removed. Now maybe later in the game, say Main Scenario 03 or onwards, I would notice more actual differences in the scripts, rather than just a lack of personality. But in the segment I played, I didn't notice anything. And as I said in my OP, I'd genuinely encourage others to have a look themselves. Maybe you'll pick up on something I missed.

[NewMoonShadow]

Diposting pertama kali oleh The_Box:

Remember the laughing scene from FF10?

Why does everyone call this scene bad? The laugh was SUPPOSED to be cringy and forced, that was literally the whole point of the scene. They were awkwardly forcing it to try to lighten up a dire mood.

[The_Box]

Diposting pertama kali oleh NewMoonShadow:

Diposting pertama kali oleh The_Box:

Remember the laughing scene from FF10?

Why does everyone call this scene bad? The laugh was SUPPOSED to be cringy and forced, that was literally the whole point of the scene. They were awkwardly forcing it to try to lighten up a dire mood.

Eh, fair enough. I haven't played the game in ages, so maybe the cringe just stuck with me and the rest of the context was lost to time.

[Jouchebag]

Diposting pertama kali oleh The_Box:

Diposting pertama kali oleh NewMoonShadow:

Why does everyone call this scene bad? The laugh was SUPPOSED to be cringy and forced, that was literally the whole point of the scene. They were awkwardly forcing it to try to lighten up a dire mood.

Eh, fair enough. I haven't played the game in ages, so maybe the cringe just stuck with me and the rest of the context was lost to time.

It was the visuals from that scene. The uncanny valley was opened wide in their facial expressions and animation.

[Baalf]

"What I mostly noticed was that everything was dialed way back in terms of characterization. All the characters felt largely the same, as though you didn't have unique individuals delivering the lines. The only exception to that that I could really pick out was, interestingly, Lian, who was still pretty dang extra throughout."

This is a big reason why Japan did not like their original version.

[Baalf]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Elron:

I appreciate you took the time and effort to do this comparison experiment and writing up a lengthy thread to discuss it.

That said, and as previously mentioned, you've spent the last 2 months non-stop defending the English localisation, discounting the number one complaint throughout much of the player reviews and forum feedback. I appreciate the tone of conversation has changed, and it feels your communication has been more good faith/genuine, but I cant look past the other 80% and consider this an impartial opinion.

If the dialogue is as similar as your state though, it should be little effort for R&B Studios to fix the most egregious lines that have been making the rounds on social media.

I'm still waiting for a full re-translation before I jump into the game. I'd prefer dialogue that is faithful to the original, even if it comes across more "wooden".

He's "defended" the translation by saying it's hate is overblown.

[[LoFR]Kaizoku]

Really curious as to how many people in the discussion about the translations here actually speak Japanese to a decent level. Seems like a lot of people leaning really hard on machine translation to make comments.

[Orlander]

Hi.
I don't have the game for now. Because of the localization mess. I read many theads here and there about it.

You can check the mod changes. There is a .txt file inside the mod archive.

There were, among other things, 2 lines that were a deal breaker for me. These lines were an example of what I could not accept as a gamer. Here are these lines and the modifications.

"Rub-a-dub-dub, don’t be a flub!"
"C’mon, c’mon, c’mon!!"

and

"You sure it’s a he?"
"But, what is that giant thing?"

There 2 lines make me confident that the mod is really more accurate and respectfull of the game content.