About Shixeen

[ErzPaladin]

I have trained Shixeen now to lvl 63 with her weapon on lvl 9 (which is max. atm). I tested a few things, but I somehow have issues in making her a good damage dealer, even though she has impressive stats.

Shixeen's damage-type is "thrust" or "pierce" (= spear), which makes it difficult to deal spike damage. Pure Strength-Runes didn't make a much of difference. Which is why I changed my idea.
She has a pretty good luck-value, which is why I gave her +10% Str, +35% Luck (via Runes) which increased her Luck to ca. 350 and still kept her Strength around 310 (+Ruby-Brooch).

But for some reason Shixeen crits far lesser than all the other chars - especially Lam, which is a pretty good critter and competes around this party-spot. So, I'm wondering, whether this is a bug or whether "thrust" or "pierce" might be affected by some other values? But, it's not like she is in any other stat especially bad.
With all that focus on Luck Shixeen has a similar critrate to Reyna or maybe even lower. Hard to say, cause both crit compareably less.
Aside from that this damage-type fares even worse on heavy armored enemies, which makes it only more troublesome.

Edit:

Stun is the same issue: Thrust- or Pierce-type skills shall have a compareably high stun-chance. But till now I've only seen her stunning an enemy once, so the stun-rate is insignificant - especially, cause stunning affords using SP-Skills (minimum 2 SP).

Lian, Gieran or Sabine are having a compareably higher rate while attacking with normal attacks. Lian sometimes even stuns while using her skills. I always thought, that was related to her high luck-value, but now it's a bit unclear.

In some STEAM-comments it is claimed that stunning is affected by the Speed-rate, too.
Well, Gieran is a pretty slow char and has a compareably low luck value. But therefore he seemingly crits higher than you'd expect it.
Lam is in her "shapeshifting"-form almost on par with Isha, has a compareably high luck-value (on lvl 65 ca. 284 Luck) and without her skill her Agility-value is on par with Lian. Lam crits compareably often, but hardly ever stuns enemies - unlike Lian. At least, from what I've seen so far.
Which makes it unclear, whether Crit and / or Stun are really related to Agility (=Speed) or Dexterity (= Tech) or whether it's bug-related.

[VertVentus]

What's spike damage?

Damage calculations are pretty linear, ( PWR - PD ) * Resistance. Shixeen is bad since she doesn't have Charge like Yuferius/Scarlet with similar PWR values or slots to equip Warrior's Pinnacle/Path.

https://suikosource.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=15244

Originally posted by Julian:

Critical Hit Rate
crit rate = (DEX * 1.5 + LUK * 2) / 40 + weapon crit + equip crit
crit suppression = (DEX * 2 + LUK) / 40
if the attacker rolls for a crit hit, the target has a crit suppression % to cancel the crit

The Eiyuden wiki does not have the details on everyone's normal attack, but we do have all the skill info, which I compiled here.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vf7ggaYqJFimZbrJktmUlyyNrWeAST20_4TioTQabEE/edit?gid=1510760671#gid=1510760671
So normal attacks can crit unlike most attack runes in the entire game, and possibly have various +% critical rate and stun rates depending on the person.

[ErzPaladin]

Originally posted by VertVentus:

What's spike damage?

Damage calculations are pretty linear, ( PWR - PD ) * Resistance. Shixeen is bad since she doesn't have Charge like Yuferius/Scarlet with similar PWR values or slots to equip Warrior's Pinnacle/Path.

Ah sry, I overread the question.

"Spike damage" means in this regard that your character doesn't make the expected damage output. 400 Strength with Iugo or 400 Str with Lam simply deal a better damage output than Shixeen does.

With Iugo for example I partly deal up to 900+ (spike) damage with a single hit, and he still has only 420 Str.
With Shixeen I tried to deal similar damage outputs upon increasing Shixeen's Strength (via Runes & Co) to ca. 400 Str. There lied a certain level-gap between both chars ranging from lvl 63 - 69 at that time, so I took that into account.
I gave Shixeen a "Crown of the Warrior"-Rune, placed her in the frontline and optimized her equipment, for being on par with Iugo.

But, even on the very rare crits, which Shixeen does in a "full-Str"-build, her crits lying around 450-550 damage. Something around that range.

Originally posted by VertVentus:

What's spike damage?

Damage calculations are pretty linear, ( PWR - PD ) * Resistance. Shixeen is bad since she doesn't have Charge like Yuferius/Scarlet with similar PWR values or slots to equip Warrior's Pinnacle/Path.

And now I have an question:

what the hell shall "PD" mean? Physical Defense? Pure Defense?

And why would you multiply the difference with Resistance? Resistance normally refers to magical resistance. A lot of games use the term Resistance as synonym for Magical Defense. So, this term is a bit irritating.

[VertVentus]

Well, Iugo and Lam are those characters who can equip Rune of the Warrior's Path/Pinnacle for better damage output. 400 PWR x 1.5 = 600 with Pinnacle for being in front row (red aura buff from Fiery Spirit) x 1.5 Critical = 900.

PD is Physical Defense, it's a stat like PWR, MGC, DEX, SPD, LUK, and MD (Magic Defense).

Resistance is how much attribute damage they take (Slash resistance, Thrust resistance, Grapple resistance, Throw, Smash / Fire, Water, Wind, Earth, Light, Dark). Every enemy has (hidden) Damage Resistance modifiers to these attributes,
https://eiyuden.wiki.gg/wiki/Enemies
Like Kogen here with +10 Slash, +10 Thrust, -10 Smash, -10 Grapple, +10 Throw, -5 Fire, +5 Water, +5 Wind, -5 Earth, -5 Light, and -5 Dark. These add or subtract from 100 and are then multiplied as a percentage.
https://eiyuden.wiki.gg/wiki/Kogen/Enemy

It's not the first time a JRPG has done this. Dragon Quest III HD-2D Remake, Fantasian Neo Dimension, Xenoblade Chronicles X, the Trails series in recent memory.

[ErzPaladin]

Originally posted by VertVentus:

Well, Iugo and Lam are those characters who can equip Rune of the Warrior's Path/Pinnacle for better damage output. 400 PWR x 1.5 = 600 with Pinnacle for being in front row (red aura buff from Fiery Spirit) x 1.5 Critical = 900.

Originally posted by VertVentus:

PD is Physical Defense, it's a stat like PWR, MGC, DEX, SPD, LUK, and MD (Magic Defense).

Resistance is how much attribute damage they take (Slash resistance, Thrust resistance, Grapple resistance, Throw, Smash / Fire, Water, Wind, Earth, Light, Dark). Every enemy has (hidden) Damage Resistance modifiers to these attributes,
https://eiyuden.wiki.gg/wiki/Enemies
Like Kogen here with +10 Slash, +10 Thrust, -10 Smash, -10 Grapple, +10 Throw, -5 Fire, +5 Water, +5 Wind, -5 Earth, -5 Light, and -5 Dark. These add or subtract from 100 and are then multiplied as a percentage.
https://eiyuden.wiki.gg/wiki/Kogen/Enemy

It's not the first time a JRPG has done this. Dragon Quest III HD-2D Remake, Fantasian Neo Dimension, Xenoblade Chronicles X, the Trails series in recent memory.

Yeah ok, but normally you just don't write PD! You write Physical Defense or just Defense or Def. Even ppl, who are used to RPGs could be misleaded by this without any context.

So, it works like...

a monster has -10 Slash** and I slash it with Iugo's base attack then it would be...

Iugo's Atk x (1+0,1**) - Def (monster)

---> cause -10 Slash is like being 10% more vulnerability and multiplying by 1,1 is like 110% damage

Damage = 400 x 1,1 - 100 = 440 - 100 = 340

---------------------------------------

But it could also be, that vulnerability doesn't multiple damage, but decrease the Defense-Quality of equipment:

Damage = Atk - [Def x (1- Slash-Modifier)] = 400 - [100 x (1-0,1)] = 400 - (100 x 0,9)

Damage = 400 - 90 = 310

That formula would make more sense, cause it's the defense which decreases in quality on a slash-weakness. Putting an additional multiplier on the weapon damage is like saying... the physical damage of my enemy hasn't changed and instead... I added some kind of "fire-enchantment boost" or something similar onto my weapon... which challenges the still same Defense-Value.

[VertVentus]

Have you ever played Pokemon, where super effectiveness multiplies damage dealt by 2x?
Resistances in Eiyuden are the same exact concept, as are the other games I mentioned.

You calculate the base damage first, which is PWR - PD (Eiyuden wiki uses these stats, I will too). In your example, 400 PWR - 90 PD = 310 DMG.
Then you account for Slash resistance, which is -10, so 310 * 110% = 343.
That's why I wrote it as "(PWR - PD) * Resistance", as PEMDAS rules calculate the Parantheses "(PWR - PD)", before Multiplication by "* Resistance".

https://suikosource.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=15237&sid=57bfe093edb87c4cd04913d9434c7a85

Originally posted by KFCrispy:

With just these buffs and no increases from equipment/runes, a lv 50 Marisa has base stats of 181 STR and 196 MAG, and we'll ignore the weapon bonus, as I'm not exactly sure if her weapon power really applies twice because she hits enemies twice in her attack... Against an enemy with 50 PDF and 50 MDF, 0 affinity to Wind or Water, and excluding the damage range fluctuation:

Normal attack will deal 131 dmg (181 PWR - 50 PD)
With STR Up, she'll get 167 (181 x 1.2 PWR = +36)
With only a wind or water enhancement, she'll deal 131 +185 = 316 damage (196 MGC x 1.2 Marisa's innate Wind/Water affinity* = 235 -50 MD = +185 bonus damage)
And with both STR and MAG Up combined with wind or water enchantment, it'll be 167 +232 = 399 damage (196 MGC x 1.2 affinity x 1.2 MGC up = 282.24 - 50 MD = +232)
What if the enemy takes 10% more damage to water? Then the physical damage will go up, from 167 to about 183, and the bonus damage will remain the same (167 x 1.1 = 183.7, so water resistance is calculated after PWR - PD, not during)

*For hidden elemental affinities,
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3254982184

[ErzPaladin]

Originally posted by VertVentus:

Have you ever played Pokemon, where super effectiveness multiplies damage dealt by 2x?
Resistances in Eiyuden are the same exact concept, as are the other games I mentioned.

You calculate the base damage first, which is PWR - PD (Eiyuden wiki uses these stats, I will too). In your example, 400 PWR - 90 PD = 310 DMG.
Then you account for Slash resistance, which is -10, so 310 * 110% = 343.
That's why I wrote it as "(PWR - PD) * Resistance", as PEMDAS rules calculate the Parantheses "(PWR - PD)", before Multiplication by "* Resistance".

What I'm guessing, what you are meaning is...

your neutral resistance resembles "1" as value ---> "1" resembles 100% as multiplier. ">1" means more taken damage, "<1" equals lesser taken damage.

100 % Damage = (Atk - Def) x 1
150 % Damage = (Atk - Def) x 1,5
80 % Damage = (Atk - Def) x 0,8

And... what you were trying to say by -10 Slash-Res is...

100 % Slash-Damage (on -10 Slash) = (Atk - Def) x (1+0,1) ---> outcome: +10% damage

----------------------------------------

Ok, accepted. If that is the formula, then we are on same terms.

But it still doesn't explain why Shixeen is compareably weak in damage dealing. My guess is, that the damage-type "thrust" or "Pierce" is the problem, cause other chars of that category share that problem. Maybe most of the stronger enemies have 10-30% thrust-Resistance.
I never used Lam with "Pinnacle of the Warrior"-Rune in the past, cause I use her as 2nd-line char in the training-dungeon. But she still does a lot more damage than Shixeen and while critting Lam is out of Shixeen's league. And Lam's crit-rate is far better, too.
It's kinda frustrating, cause Shixeen has amazing HP, Str and Def and her M-Def is still good. And her unique skill makes her pretty interesting for difficult situations.

But Shixeen is pretty bad in terms of rune-slots: she has the rune-slot minimum of 4. 1 Slot is taken for a 1-4 point SP-Thrust-Skill.
She has two 2-point rune slots (2 points are funnily base slots ranging from 1-2) for attribute-increasing runes.
And a 3-point rune slot for anything which ranges from 1 to 3 points, except runes like "Pinnacle of the Warrior" or "Way of the Warrior", or -mage, or -sharp shooter.

That makes Shixeen ok, but rather mediocre. There are far worse chars, cause a lot of chars lack survivability even though they fair better as damage dealer.
I already wanted to take her as tank for the frontline in that mountain pass-campaign, where you place those 3 bombs with 3 different teams. But then I thought, let's give Lam a "Pinnacle of the Warrior"-Rune and set her in the front and Shixeen into the back instead, cause with 320 Def Lam isn't amazing, but still good in the front.
And I hoped, Lam would shredder some enemies into tiny little pieces there.

[VertVentus]

Enemy physical attribute resistance don't tend to vary beyond -15 to +15, while it's elemental weaknesses that can go higher up to -50. There's no agenda on Thrust types, as Elektra is one of the stronger characters being able to equip both Path & Pinnacle (if you NG+ for it, anyway).
As Lam is a Grapple type, they ignore 25% physical damage mitigation via armor with normal attacks and 100% with skills. Armor is just a flat reduction of (Value)/10, so doesn't amount to more than -20 or so physical damage (most attacks/skills deplete -10 ~ -50 value, so granting +1 ~ +5 damage dealt).
That being said, how weapon ATK factors into damage calculation (which is unknown AFAIK) could be the factor, since you have Lam/Iugo as single-hit types who could add the +80 ATK onto PWR (at Lv. 15 weapon).
Like Nowa, Shixeen meanwhile divides that ATK value between 2 normal attacks as a double-hit type (+40 ATK), and thus suffers more from armor's damage mitigation since you have two damage calculations that get summed for the final value at the end of the animation. There's other characters who triple-hit (+27 ATK), quad-hit (+20 ATK), or even quin-hit (Perrielle, +16 ATK) with their normals.
Then Iugo has his Slash skill for a 1.55x damage modifier at 5 SP, Lam has Channel Qi: Transformation to give herself a +20% PWR buff, while Shixeen has nothing going for her.

[ErzPaladin]

Originally posted by VertVentus:

(if you NG+ for it, anyway).

I'm not New Game+^^

"FI-NALLY!, the harsh training hoas paid uff! Summ...one called my chars NG+! I'm soooa proud uff moa liddl puappies~~"