Any point to magic characters?

[Ser Dakota]

So I am not very far, just past getting the HQ, and wondering if I should ditch the magic users? I was running with 1 healer/mage and 1 mage but I get so few spell uses because of the high mp cost and low mp amount that it just seems pointless. Especially on healing as 9 times out of 10 I just use an item as they heal for more.

Does magic get much better or should I just replace them with some melee/ranged units? Also yes I am using "magic" based characters, my issue is the mp cost and how hard it is to get back mp.

[Johnny Karate]

I feel like the water rune hasn't been as horrendous for me, but the light rune absolutely just devours your MP. Items work well enough too, but I like having the options that magic brings but I think thus far it's safe to say magic is outclassed by physical units until/unless they get stronger aoe healing/damage later on.

[ah_fish]

It stays true to its Suikoden origins then - you don't really use a lot of magic until you hit the boss because there were very few ways to replenish your MP.

[Mugiwara]

If it has retained the mechanic of combining magic from the Suikoden series, then yes there is a very OP reason to use magic. The Fire & lightning storm combo was insane in the Suikoden series.

[Cyflan]

You don't really use magic against bosses either, other than buffing and healing magic, because magic just doesn't seem to scale at all.
I don't know if the magic stat is just broken or what, but magic does really poor damage.

[Padhiver]

There's a bug with the magic scaling, it just can't keep up with the damage from the physics. If it's not a bug it's just ... weird.

[小龙马]

Well, if comparing to other games, the magic-user in this game seems to hit quite hard physically, aside the first mage that we obtain(by no means it is very weak to the point that his/her physical attack is useless), the healer physical attack is comparable to my fighter.

So I think having one or two magic user in your formation wouldn't lower your dps by much in addition of their utility provided by magic.

[chiyen]

Originally posted by Ser Dakota:

So I am not very far, just past getting the HQ, and wondering if I should ditch the magic users? I was running with 1 healer/mage and 1 mage but I get so few spell uses because of the high mp cost and low mp amount that it just seems pointless. Especially on healing as 9 times out of 10 I just use an item as they heal for more.

Does magic get much better or should I just replace them with some melee/ranged units? Also yes I am using "magic" based characters, my issue is the mp cost and how hard it is to get back mp.

Traditionally, until you
- find a free MP refill points, or
- MP bar / cast count is overflowed,
pure caster is kind of parasite.

Unless, they can do some damage by physical attacks, or being a fast healer using items.

[Overeagerdragon]

I feel Magic has a different place in this game.... We tend to see magic as just "another form of DPS" but in this game it's much more niche than that. With a basic setup of 2 brawlers, 2 fighters, 1 healer and 1 support I usually can fight everything EXCEPT BOSSES without spending a single point of MP and when I DO it's usually to heal OR snipe a target from the enemies backline

Magic is more supportive in this game than "unlimited power !!!!" and I think it's kinda refreshing to actually using melee dps instead of just loading up a party with 1 tank and 5 (or 3) mages

[spellsnare]

Originally posted by Ser Dakota:

So I am not very far, just past getting the HQ, and wondering if I should ditch the magic users? I was running with 1 healer/mage and 1 mage but I get so few spell uses because of the high mp cost and low mp amount that it just seems pointless. Especially on healing as 9 times out of 10 I just use an item as they heal for more.

Does magic get much better or should I just replace them with some melee/ranged units? Also yes I am using "magic" based characters, my issue is the mp cost and how hard it is to get back mp.

when you start yeah there not really any point to use magic but when you begin to have strong spellcaster/healer there the fun begin yeah your rune-lense are very weak and cost a lot of MP but where i am my mage have 260 MP so i can cast a lot i just save mostly my MP against boss or strong foe

like my healer Marin she a strong healer she did have good defense and have a lot of MP so she support and heal

[Lust]

I find it pretty useful, it's just that early on you don't have decent Rune Lenses or multiple choices for mages. I would say so far Light and Wind Magic seem like the biggest scams, huge MP costs for very little usefulness at least as far as level 1 Runes go. Early game magic seems to be more focused on just healing and status effects until you start finding higher level runes then the damage picks up a bit, but nothing so far can keep up with the damage Iugo, Maureus and Yusuke can pull off with proper use of damage buffs/food outside of maaaaybe a super buffed up Lam in hot girl summer mode.

Francesca stayed in my party until I got Isha (with a second level Water Rune) since she had the highest MP of all the casters, her melee smack hurts a lot and she has a nice Duel Tech with Falward which makes the early to mid game bosses a cake walk.

Isha though is a straight upgrade to Francesca, more MP, super fast plus one of the best looking sprites in the game (imo).

Melridge is good if you want a Fire Rune mage. Carrie is also super fast so she's useful if you slap on a Rune Lens that isn't Light (I used her with a Dark Rune until I unlocked Milana).

My other favourite so far besides Isha is Milana, she has 6 unlockable Runes, a nice dark Rune Lens for AoE damage+Sleep and her SP tech she starts with is AoE as well for only 2 SP she's my MVP for random encounters.


Earth magic I put on Nowa for the status cleanse and armour break spell. The element enhancement runes are also super decent on your Melee fighters with low magic like Iugo with his 5 SP nuke or taunt counter skill.

When it comes to melee damage I think the two best ones I've found so far are Yusuke with his boost skill that stacks twice (who hasn't left my party since I got him at the start of the game). He has a double tech with Jorhan but so far he seems pretty mediocre even though he's hot so not sure if he's worth keeping in my party for the combo attack when he only hits for 50 damage plus very little MP so he can't cast anything useful.

Maureus (which Francesca needs to be level 36 since you need someone with over 270 MP to recruit him) he's got some good damage with his 1 SP boost skill and another 5 Sp nuke like Iugo. Slap on the Fire enhancement or the Dark one from Milana and the two of them are hitting like 500-700 damage a pop. He also has a triple tech with Mellore and Gieran. He is a melee nuker though so he's virtually useless when it comes to magic damage.

That covers the main op/mages people I've run into so far since I just got to the desert areas last night so I'm around mid game give or take.

[Syselie]

I tend to bring Falward + Francesca for their combo heal and buff. Both their normal attacks are fairly strong too, and some of the mages are already mixing magic with the basic attacks (ex Falward with light). MP early is hard so would rather use SP but once you get access to the higher tier runes/ accessories they become pretty damn good. Can’t ignore adding runes for passives as well.

[kfcrispy]

Magic definitely becomes more useful later, and characters who attack with magical element actually attack with their magic stat, not strength. So buff up the mage's magic stat for strong normal hits. It's hard to tell about magic spells scaling early on; the level 1 offensive spells are pretty much never worth using, but the water level 3 heal spell definitely scales off the caster's magic stat, and the level 2/3 spells that deal "moderate" damage seem to be better than normal attack.

But I would agree that for the most part, magic is most useful for healing, buffed, and debuffing.
Notable spells:
Dark lv 1: damage all enemies and high chance to cause sleep
Dark lv 2: apply a "damage over time" based on a % of the target's maximum health. Boss killer
Water lv 2: magic defense buff
Water lv 4: damage and slow the enemy
Earth lv 5: Canopy Defense
Light lv 4: apply Light element to the party and restore minor health at the end of each turn for 3 turns
Light lv 5: full heal/revive

[RenRen]

Originally posted by ah_fish:

It stays true to its Suikoden origins then - you don't really use a lot of magic until you hit the boss because there were very few ways to replenish your MP.

I hate these arguments of "its true to its suikoden origin" such a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ argument for a lazy ass design. Why is a class more overpowered than the other? I don't enjoy physical characters and prefer mages, so i'm forced to run physical or i get my ass kicked just cuz "suikoden origin"?

[Overeagerdragon]

Originally posted by JessicaSKY:

Originally posted by ah_fish:

It stays true to its Suikoden origins then - you don't really use a lot of magic until you hit the boss because there were very few ways to replenish your MP.

I hate these arguments of "its true to its suikoden origin" such a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ argument for a lazy ass design. Why is a class more overpowered than the other? I don't enjoy physical characters and prefer mages, so i'm forced to run physical or i get my ass kicked just cuz "suikoden origin"?

Basically.. yes
And it has nothing to do with lazy game design but a choice of orientation made by the dev...

Mages simply weren't/aren't as OP in this game as they normally are in any other game.

TBH; I think it's refreshing to have to pick an actual team instead of being "meta-driven" into every character sucking unless they can do magic

[Chief Spreading Bull]

Originally posted by JessicaSKY:

Originally posted by ah_fish:

It stays true to its Suikoden origins then - you don't really use a lot of magic until you hit the boss because there were very few ways to replenish your MP.

I hate these arguments of "its true to its suikoden origin" such a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ argument for a lazy ass design. Why is a class more overpowered than the other? I don't enjoy physical characters and prefer mages, so i'm forced to run physical or i get my ass kicked just cuz "suikoden origin"?

So go play Hogwarts' Legacy instead. This game was made in the spirit of Suikoden and they never hid that ever since the first day of Kickstarter. If you don't like it go get your refund.