one thing i dont like about the story

[ace-mos]

the constant character shilling nowa gets

he does not do ANYTHING to earn it but he keeps getting handed promotions and responbilities

and then he gets praised for bringing victory when he is not coming up with strategies or anything

its just annoying

i get that this happened in the suikoden games to but those at least had the true runes to give some kind of justification

nowa is just a guy

and he is a rather bland character just a step above a persona protagonist in terms of personality

[NewMoonShadow]

I haven't played the game yet, but generally the main character in a game will be praised for their charisma and ability to lead/inspire others, rather than adding anything material to the cause. It was also this way in Suikoden. The leads of those games weren't just Rune-Pouches, they inspired everyone else to join and fight for the cause.

It's sad how people many today think that if you aren't physically doing everything yourself then you're just not contributing.

[Rookie0879]

Originally posted by NewMoonShadow:

I haven't played the game yet, but generally the main character in a game will be praised for their charisma and ability to lead/inspire others, rather than adding anything material to the cause. It was also this way in Suikoden. The leads of those games weren't just Rune-Pouches, they inspired everyone else to join and fight for the cause.

Not in this case, based on what I have seen so far. It is wildly weird how Nowa gets promotions out of the blue.

[Duradan]

Man I wanna say stuff, but I don't wanna spoil lol. But I will say I think you missed the whole point of Nowa and a few peeps around him on this. This will prob carry on to a sequel as the already have 2 more laid out by the Man himself

[Overeagerdragon]

....part of the point?

There's scenes in which he'll bring this up himself

[Synical]

He is a puppet, he is constantly told what to do by the other characters and makes very few meaningful decisions himself. He is basically praised for having a moral code.

It goes hand in hand with the weak narrative overall.

The empire crushes their opponent but lets them build a castle right next to them, they build this castle in "one week", the empire then lets the alliance leader roam about their guarded cities recruiting sympathisers to his cause unopposed. This includes their capital city, even after an assault on their research facility.

These sympathisers are happy to basically lay down their life for the alliance because someone asked them to nicely. Written by a true visionary.

[idonspie8291]

i agree so far, like garr doesn't have reason to make him captain, at first i though he's going somewhere like mio but nooo, or when during siege by the empire and why nowa commanded an army alongside sabina and ymir? like cmon bro this ain't no joke putting some inexperience nobody like that as commander? also when perrielle trust him with building a resistance army and that's just because he looks like someone she loves? bruh, you could argue that's because she's using him as propaganda tool and make him "the boy whose village were raze by the empire and now he take up arm for revenge" even then his sister were fine somewhere else and the villager just straight up rebuilding the whole village again like 1 second after hurtswine left?? and i bet the poor localization also take part in this lol

[Overeagerdragon]

These comments make me wonder how many anime-inspired JRPG's these guys have played. The game is filled with anime archetypes from the rough rascal yakuza-wannabe Yusuke to the Old warrior in his day returning for one final fight Ruifan. Ffs Mellore is an outright magical girl with all the trimmings of defeating evil-doers with the power of love and friendship.

The game isn't going for realism....

[Syselie]

I thought of it as other characters putting leadership on a somewhat likeable guy so he brings people together, like the glue in a piece than the main draw. Charisma and all that. The strategists, people like Flik/Viktor could be seen as polarizing within the world because they’re already popular and you already know their views.

Perry tried to make it propaganda and it made sense, just the one scene didn’t quite have too much of an impact. Wish we could’ve seen or read what she tried to do to spread the word about Nowa.

[[BRE] Ralf]

Originally posted by Overeagerdragon:

These comments make me wonder how many anime-inspired JRPG's these guys have played. The game is filled with anime archetypes from the rough rascal yakuza-wannabe Yusuke to the Old warrior in his day returning for one final fight Ruifan. Ffs Mellore is an outright magical girl with all the trimmings of defeating evil-doers with the power of love and friendship.

The game isn't going for realism....

In all Suikoden games, we can organically understand why a character becomes the leader of the rebel army. However, in this game, this aspect feels rushed.

It's not solely about realism; it's about believing in the world that has been constructed, and the game falls short in that regard.

[Overeagerdragon]

Originally posted by BRE Ralf:

Originally posted by Overeagerdragon:

These comments make me wonder how many anime-inspired JRPG's these guys have played. The game is filled with anime archetypes from the rough rascal yakuza-wannabe Yusuke to the Old warrior in his day returning for one final fight Ruifan. Ffs Mellore is an outright magical girl with all the trimmings of defeating evil-doers with the power of love and friendship.

The game isn't going for realism....

In all Suikoden games, we can organically understand why a character becomes the leader of the rebel army. However, in this game, this aspect feels rushed.

It's not solely about realism; it's about believing in the world that has been constructed, and the game falls short in that regard.

I don't think so... Over the course of the adventure you discover Perielle had more than 1 reason why she wanted Nowa to lead other than "He reminds her of a man she loved" and "He's a good icon to ferment a rebellion". Perielle is quite the little schemer in her own right but I don't want to spoil too much :)

[NewMoonShadow]

Originally posted by SinsOfHistory:

I actually always felt like this even with Suikoden 1 and 2.

Honestly, what did McDohl do to deserve his leadership role? He barely ever talked.
He was born into it, AKA Nepotism. and than Odessa just thrust it upon him after one mission.

Mathieu was the strategiest and came up with all the plans along with Flik/Viktor and the advisors.

What did Riouu do to deserve his position? Again, Shu was the strategist and came up with most of the battle plans along with apple and some advisors. Viktro and Flik were the real leaders at first. You just kinda went along with it until Shu decides you should be the leader instead.

Neither of the main characters really did anything to earn their role.

They where just the charismatic types that had that abilioty of being able to bring people together with their warm heart and desire to help people.

I guess the only difference is the previous heros were chosen because of the True Rune.. but having a true rune doesn't feel like a reason to have the ability to lead an army.

McDohl absolutely had the responsibility thrust upon him by numerous factors, but he rose to the occasion when he had to. Not every leader chooses to be one, in fact some of the best leaders in history have been those who only did it because they felt they had no choice in the matter. In McDohl's case his choices were either be hunted by the bad guys for the rest of his life (They were not letting the Soul Eater slip away) or do everything in his power to stand and fight. He chose to stand and fight, and in doing so inspired those around him to do the same.

Maybe it's not a 100% virtuous rationale on his part, maybe it's not the perfect situation and maybe he wasn't the perfect leader. Few things in life ARE perfect, and he was what was needed at the time. this is probably one of the most realistic parts of the Suikoden series. The protagonists aren't the best at everything, oftentimes they're not even the best leaders in the group, but they're the ones who inspire confidence in the people for various reasons.

Hell I'd argue McDohl's greatest strength was his ability to NOT force others to do things his way when he knew damn well he wasn't the best at the job. The worst thing a leader can do is try to lead when he clearly is not the best suited for dealing with the current situation.

... Though it's worth remembering that, at the very least, McDohl WAS directly in command during the large-scale war sequences. He was their military general during battle, he just didn't decide when and where battles should take place.

[Neonivek]

The game does try to justify Nowa's promotions somewhat. Beyond people finding him reliable and trustworthy...

He is also a young charismatic person who could easily be propagandised in the resistance's favor.

[sdragonkroener]

This was on purpose. Nowa is a young charismatic rebel from podunk nowhere. Perry put him in place because that's the kind of person that the common man would rally behind. She said as much early on. Much easier for a folk hero to rally an resistance than a noble who is already hated by commoners due to their status and wealth.

[ace-mos]

bump

[Raelic]

The promotion in the game gets explained. It was offered to Lian but she said it sounded like a pain in the butt. It then went to the next character.

Also, saying Nowa doesn't do anything is ignoring other factors, like how he bonds with people in situations and figures out puzzles fast early in the game before the other characters do in the story.