deidetected site is being honest (info below)

[fefnir3284]

Here is the deidetected website link to this game -> https://deidetected.com/dei-detected/eiyuden-chronicle-hundred-heroes

They are listing information and don't seem to be bias or judging. The review says there is DEI, then says the instances did not affect the reviewer, and even listed some prime examples. I don't sense outrage, emotion, fire, or anything. Just simple is there DEI (Y/N), and degree/examples.

This being said I don't want any DEI stuff but the review showed me it is there but so minor that (for me) it isn't worth missing a spiritual successor, I've wanted to see for ages, over it.

[UltimateTobi]

Originally posted by fefnir3284:

Here is the deidetected website link to this game -> https://deidetected.com/dei-detected/eiyuden-chronicle-hundred-heroes

They are listing information and don't seem to be bias or judging. The review says there is DEI, then says the instances did not affect the reviewer, and even listed some prime examples. I don't sense outrage, emotion, fire, or anything. Just simple is there DEI (Y/N), and degree/examples.

This being said I don't want any DEI stuff but the review showed me it is there but so minor that (for me) it isn't worth missing a spiritual successor, I've wanted to see for ages, over it.

It's not just DEI stuff, but a botched localisation on the scale of the whole game.

Examples: https://x.com/zakogdo/status/1782340520670527759

[Kefka Gestahl]

Originally posted by UltimateTobi:

Examples: https://x.com/zakogdo/status/1782340520670527759

You believe it was botched. That does not mean it was botched. Localization is not translation. It is literally their job to make changes and improvements for specific countries. In nearly all of the posted examples, the translations make Lian out to be a flat and boring character completely devoid of personality. The Lian we got has personality. You're free to dislike that personality but to act like the nothingburger the literal translations showed were inherently superior is a flawed position to have.

[Overeagerdragon]

.... a singular example? (Might want to check that link yourself man)... which does convey part of the issue (localisation changing character persona depictions; making them feel and act different from their JP counterparts) but man is that one of the weaker example to give.... The "rubba-dub-dub" argument.... which (hate to tell you this), people actually used in the 90's and this game is supposed to give the retro-peeps their nostalgia so not only does it hardly show the extent of how Lian was changed from JP>EN but it's actually a GOOD example of how the localisers wanted to invoke feelings of nostalgia....

If you want to show the localisation was of poor quality at least show something better than this man... even the "chud" argument would've been better xD

[e-dood]

Originally posted by Overeagerdragon:

.... a singular example? (Might want to check that link yourself man)... which does convey part of the issue (localisation changing character persona depictions; making them feel and act different from their JP counterparts) but man is that one of the weaker example to give.... The "rubba-dub-dub" argument.... which (hate to tell you this), people actually used in the 90's and this game is supposed to give the retro-peeps their nostalgia so not only does it hardly show the extent of how Lian was changed from JP>EN but it's actually a GOOD example of how the localisers wanted to invoke feelings of nostalgia....

i mean, we could have left the garbage localization in the 90's.

[Overeagerdragon]

Originally posted by e-dood:

Originally posted by Overeagerdragon:

.... a singular example? (Might want to check that link yourself man)... which does convey part of the issue (localisation changing character persona depictions; making them feel and act different from their JP counterparts) but man is that one of the weaker example to give.... The "rubba-dub-dub" argument.... which (hate to tell you this), people actually used in the 90's and this game is supposed to give the retro-peeps their nostalgia so not only does it hardly show the extent of how Lian was changed from JP>EN but it's actually a GOOD example of how the localisers wanted to invoke feelings of nostalgia....

i mean, we could have left the garbage localization in the 90's.

You REALLY don't understand the difference between localisation and translation huh?

Translation =/= localisation
BUT
Localisation DOES involve translation...but adapts it to be regionally equal in meaning.

Its the "cow is an animal but not animals are cows" principle

[UltimateTobi]

Originally posted by Kefka Gestahl:

Originally posted by UltimateTobi:

Examples: https://x.com/zakogdo/status/1782340520670527759

You believe it was botched. That does not mean it was botched. Localization is not translation. It is literally their job to make changes and improvements for specific countries. In nearly all of the posted examples, the translations make Lian out to be a flat and boring character completely devoid of personality. The Lian we got has personality. You're free to dislike that personality but to act like the nothingburger the literal translations showed were inherently superior is a flawed position to have.

I'd be rich if I got a penny for every time someone basically said "but muh localisation can't be 1:1 because reasons."

Yeah, no one is advocating for a literal 1:1 translation. What we got is anything but a proper, faithful localisation either.

If the character says "What is that thing?" in the original, then translate it like that; word for word.

Also Lian is just a snippy "cool" hip girl in the ENG loc. If you think that's likable, fine. I don't care whether I like her or not. What I care about is that the text is faithfully translated. If she was like that in the original, that'd be fine. But she isn't. It's a fantasy construct of the localiser.

[e-dood]

Originally posted by Overeagerdragon:

Originally posted by e-dood:

i mean, we could have left the garbage localization in the 90's.

You REALLY don't understand the difference between localisation and translation huh?

Translation =/= localisation
BUT
Localisation DOES involve translation...but adapts it to be regionally equal in meaning.

Its the "cow is an animal but not animals are cows" principle

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ritZxM_uejA


But people are still allowed to criticize it. Especially when there was no reason to change the original intent of the materal.

[Neno]

Originally posted by e-dood:

But people are still allowed to criticize it. Especially when there was no reason to change the original intent of the materal.

It's time for you to start providing links to a statement by literally any relevant game developer or writer indicating that the localisation you're criticising doesn't represent the intent of their material, otherwise your argument is complete bs and can be disregarded as invalid.

[Overeagerdragon]

Originally posted by e-dood:

Originally posted by Overeagerdragon:

You REALLY don't understand the difference between localisation and translation huh?

Translation =/= localisation
BUT
Localisation DOES involve translation...but adapts it to be regionally equal in meaning.

Its the "cow is an animal but not animals are cows" principle

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ritZxM_uejA


But people are still allowed to criticize it. Especially when there was no reason to change the original intent of the materal.

True but wouldn't the "chud" argument then be better because it's a resetera term (so doesn't speak to invoking nostalgia) AND changes the context of the translation/localisation in ADDITION to that? Chud is an American term...hardly anyone speaking English OUTSIDE of Americans even knew what the word meant before they saw it here....

So not only is it a bad translation (as the original word is bastard) but it's ALSO bad localisation because it uses a term that is narrowly used in ONE part of the world ?

[UltimateTobi]

Originally posted by Neno:

Originally posted by e-dood:

But people are still allowed to criticize it. Especially when there was no reason to change the original intent of the materal.

It's time for you to start providing links to a statement by literally any relevant game developer or writer indicating that the localisation you're criticising doesn't represent the intent of their material, otherwise your argument is complete bs and can be disregarded as invalid.

If the J text says A, but localiser says B, then I'd argue localiser missed intent of author, no?
Very simplified, but I don't need the author to tell me "the localiser botched my work." I think it goes without saying that if the written English texts are different than the original, that the localisation doesn't transport the intent of the original.

Besides, you just did an appeal to authority.

Originally posted by Overeagerdragon:

Originally posted by e-dood:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ritZxM_uejA


But people are still allowed to criticize it. Especially when there was no reason to change the original intent of the materal.

True but wouldn't the "chud" argument then be better because it's a resetera term (so doesn't speak to invoking nostalgia) AND changes the context of the translation/localisation in ADDITION to that? Chud is an American term...hardly anyone speaking English OUTSIDE of Americans even knew what the word meant before they saw it here....

So not only is it a bad translation (as the original word is bastard) but it's ALSO bad localisation because it uses a term that is narrowly used in ONE part of the world ?

I think what he meant is that garbage localisations, as found in the 90s, should've stayed there, because there is no more reason to have low quality, low-faithfulness translations or localisations in the current day; simply by virtue of having more and better access to information and language data bases.

You both agree, but are talking past each other.

[e-dood]

Originally posted by Overeagerdragon:

Originally posted by e-dood:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ritZxM_uejA


But people are still allowed to criticize it. Especially when there was no reason to change the original intent of the materal.

True but wouldn't the "chud" argument then be better because it's a resetera term (so doesn't speak to invoking nostalgia) AND changes the context of the translation/localisation in ADDITION to that? Chud is an American term...hardly anyone speaking English OUTSIDE of Americans even knew what the word meant before they saw it here....

So not only is it a bad translation (as the original word is bastard) but it's ALSO bad localisation because it uses a term that is narrowly used in ONE part of the world ?

Ya know, I think there might have been a bit of a communication error between us, (Probably my fault as I'm dead tired, so my b) as I completely agree with this.

I'm just largely tired of localizers using the sledgehammer approach ("punching up" dialogue and the like) rather than the scalpel when it comes to localization (being faithful with only necessary changes). And for some reason, the sledgehammer approach being okay for anime/video games because they aren't taken as seriously.

[Neno]

Originally posted by UltimateTobi:

I think it goes without saying that if the written English texts are different than the original, that the localisation doesn't transport the intent of the original.

Nope, this is you failing to understand how the translation process works, it's been explained many times before.

[Overeagerdragon]

Originally posted by UltimateTobi:

Originally posted by Neno:

It's time for you to start providing links to a statement by literally any relevant game developer or writer indicating that the localisation you're criticising doesn't represent the intent of their material, otherwise your argument is complete bs and can be disregarded as invalid.

If the J text says A, but localiser says B, then I'd argue localiser missed intent of author, no?
Very simplified, but I don't need the author to tell me "the localiser botched my work." I think it goes without saying that if the written English texts are different than the original, that the localisation doesn't transport the intent of the original.

Besides, you just did an appeal to authority.

Originally posted by Overeagerdragon:

True but wouldn't the "chud" argument then be better because it's a resetera term (so doesn't speak to invoking nostalgia) AND changes the context of the translation/localisation in ADDITION to that? Chud is an American term...hardly anyone speaking English OUTSIDE of Americans even knew what the word meant before they saw it here....

So not only is it a bad translation (as the original word is bastard) but it's ALSO bad localisation because it uses a term that is narrowly used in ONE part of the world ?

I think what he meant is that garbage localisations, as found in the 90s, should've stayed there, because there is no more reason to have low quality, low-faithfulness translations or localisations in the current day; simply by virtue of having more and better access to information and language data bases.

You both agree, but are talking past each other.

If that's the case then yeah; I agree... localisation back then was also heavily constrained by the limitations of the hardware as there was hardly any internet and cartridges had limited space so localisers often had to get creative.... we don't have that anymore so there's little excuse for localisers "being forced" to make those kinds of changes and yet we still get them; which is a downright shame as it reflects bad on both game as well as the profession of localiser itself....

BTW: this does NOT mean the game isn't good imho... it just could've been better

[e-dood]

Originally posted by UltimateTobi:

You both agree, but are talking past each other.

Yeah, that's my bad.

[Overeagerdragon]

Originally posted by e-dood:

Originally posted by UltimateTobi:

You both agree, but are talking past each other.

Yeah, that's my bad.

same here my man