So I really wanted to be excited about this game... buut...

[T]

I hate Kawano Junko's character designs.

She had very very little involvement in Suikoden II and V, the two best Suikoden games.

On the other hand she was producer for the two worst, IV and Tactics.

What makes you think Eiyuden will be any better than Suikoden IV? Most Suikoden fans totally ignore IV like it didn't even exist.

[Furry Wrecking Crew]

Belmont eredeti hozzászólása:

RPG Historian eredeti hozzászólása:

Let's start an argument.

I am a huge Suikoden fan, and agree with you that II and V are the best.

However, IV is NOT the worst Suikoden. It is III. And Tactics is also way better than III. I actually loved IV, and the major complaint of the limited party, was WORSE in III because of the stupid formation where you had 3 pairs, not 6 individuals. It was actually more limited than IV in battle. Also, in III you had to backtrack over the SAME areas over and over, with no world map! It was atrocious game design.

It goes (best to worst): V, II, I, IV, III.

I have fond memories of Suikoden IV and Tactics, but III was just crap overall as a JRPG.

Suikoden III's metacritic score is an 86 with a user score of 8.8.

Suikoden IV's metacritic score is a 63 with a user score of 7.4.

Glad you liked IV better, but the general consensus disagrees with you there. Personally I thought III and IV were both trash, so I don't take either side in this. II and V were my favorites followed by I.

*Gasp* It's almost as if personal opinion is just that, personal opinion! What a novel concept.

But I'm a connoisseur of fine RPGs, so my opinion matters more. The poor, huddled masses can stick to Suikoden III and the Kardashians...

[T]

BloodyPork eredeti hozzászólása:

greydays96 eredeti hozzászólása:

I havent looked at any released character designs yet since id rather be surprised, but yes, if the character designer really blew it i'll be pretty pissed, and it would have to really make up for it in other departments. Like, Fire Emblem Engage just launched and i'm probably not getting it because of its awful character designs, and thats like my favorite series. 1 and 2 had good character designs, only a few good ones in the others, (3 and 4 are the worst though hands down) but I do think Tierkreis and that one for the psp that was japan only had really nice designs even for non mainline entries.

Junko Kawano (the character designer for Eiyuden) designed the characters for most Suikoden including 1 and 2 iirc. She also does the character redrawing for the Suiko remaster.

I think she only designed characters for 1, and of course characters in 2 that were also in 1. Maybe 4 too, but I forget.

[Furry Wrecking Crew]

Q Wave eredeti hozzászólása:

Suikoden III has excellent storytelling, characters, combat, and a powerful final secret chapter that ties everything together. The tri-perspective system was well-executed and an admirable risk they took.

I would agree until you got to that last part. The 3 perspectives were horribly executed, and that's what killed the game for me. It became a chore to slog through the same 3-4 areas over and over again to see the same story told 3 times. It was brutally boring, and why I consider 4 way more fun because of the exploration aspect and open-world feel.

[Baalf]

Q Wave eredeti hozzászólása:

Suikoden III has excellent storytelling, characters, combat, and a powerful final secret chapter that ties everything together. The tri-perspective system was well-executed and an admirable risk they took. It received flak mostly for how far it departed aesthetically and gameplay-wise from Suikoden II, but if you thought those changes were for the better, then you were very happy with the game. It has also aged well enough to be played now, whereas Suikoden II can feel very dated and the combat too easy.

This is all my personal opinion. I have played many RPGs. If others disagree about Suikoden III, that's fine with me. I would assume that there is a fair amount of trolling going on in this thread. Opinions are just that--opinions. We can squabble over what standards we are judging things against and try to debate whose standards and evaluations are better, but ultimately it is on each gamer to experience a game and decide for him or herself whether that game is a well-executed experience and a work of art worthy of their time.

Rather than arguing with other people about this game that hasn't even come out yet, how about you play it when it comes out and decide for yourself if you like it. Or at least watch some footage of the first hour and decide that way.

That is, unless you are looking to others to formulate your thoughts for you, instead of using your own mind.

I've only played the first two, so I can't say for sure about the rest, but I do have interest if there's an accessible way to play them.

[Baalf]

Q Wave eredeti hozzászólása:

They're on PS2 so you could play them if you've got one or have a way to play PS2 games.

I've seen people get pretty heated and combative on this board in some of the threads. That makes me sad considering this game is an interesting project that seems like a labor of love in the midst of a very bloated over-the-top gaming industry right now. I'm optimistic and am very willing to give the game a chance, not place expectations on it before I've even played it.

It's important to remember that on forums some posts are trying to get a rise out of the other person. If you lose your cool and make an angry post, you're giving them what they want, which is your frustration and verbalized emotional reaction. Better for one to see through it and focus on working through the things that are upsetting, seeking the tools to do so, rather than arguing with a random person on the internet.

Unfortunately, I don't have a working PS2. I have a broken one, but that's it.

Personally, I'd love for this game to be good. It just seems like any game I look forward to ends up being crap. I may find hidden gems, but it seems if I actually follow something, it usually turns out to not be good. At least in my experience.

Also, I know you're trying to help, but I REALLY hate it when people tell others to "just ignore them. All they want is a reaction." No. What they want is power over you. They want the knowledge to know that they can be a prick for no reason and get away with it. I'm really getting sick and tired of the mentality that rewarding them by doing nothing is a "punishment. We, as a species, need to one day come together and just say "NO!" to that kind of behavior. Until then, many people's lives are going to be ruined and jerks are going to get away with far too much because of that mentality.

[Belmont]

RPG Historian eredeti hozzászólása:

Belmont eredeti hozzászólása:

Ah yes, the hypocrisy smells delicious first thing in the morning.

Because fighting fire with fire and escalating to meet has always worked so well in human history.

Funny how you claim to "hate humans" so much, yet you're doing the most human thing of all. Perpetuating the cycle of hatred, anger and violence instead of rising above it.

Well done. Truly, well done.

This.

And he was banned, nice. Payback for when he banned me months ago for saying "It's legally OK to kill furries, all you have to do is say you thought it was a deer."

You mentioning deer made me remember that horrible Twitch safety council debacle with the deer girl.

[Yílõng Má]

RPG Historian eredeti hozzászólása:

Ashura_Darkheart eredeti hozzászólása:

suikoden 4 was trash,that blasted game was nose a suikoden,it miss so much what made suikoden in so many levels so far the best one are 123 and 5.

Suikoden 4 was a rip off of any type of turn base rpg whit only 4 character to use and the story was not even good either.

Everything was worse in 3. At least 4 nailed the exploration, which is why I like it.

4 players companion in battle is never a Suikoden lol. Suikoden is only for 6 companions battle.

[Yílõng Má]

RPG Historian eredeti hozzászólása:

Belmont eredeti hozzászólása:

Suikoden III's metacritic score is an 86 with a user score of 8.8.

Suikoden IV's metacritic score is a 63 with a user score of 7.4.

Glad you liked IV better, but the general consensus disagrees with you there. Personally I thought III and IV were both trash, so I don't take either side in this. II and V were my favorites followed by I.

*Gasp* It's almost as if personal opinion is just that, personal opinion! What a novel concept.

But I'm a connoisseur of fine RPGs, so my opinion matters more. The poor, huddled masses can stick to Suikoden III and the Kardashians...

♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, you don't even platinum'd any JRPGs. I am sure you don't even play since before PS1 era.

[Furry Wrecking Crew]

Yílõng Má eredeti hozzászólása:

RPG Historian eredeti hozzászólása:

But I'm a connoisseur of fine RPGs, so my opinion matters more. The poor, huddled masses can stick to Suikoden III and the Kardashians...

♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, you don't even platinum'd any JRPGs. I am sure you don't even play since before PS1 era.

I beat Ultima IV before you were born hahahaha.

[tili1]

Weird when everybody goes off-topic. The topic was about Junko's design.

Suikoden III was an excellent game, it introduced a lot of new unique gimmicks that made the series better: Skills (which made characters more unique) and the Multiple POV.

Yes, they reused a lot of scenarios, but that was common at the early 3D era. Also, pretty scenarios are eye candy and not as important as plot and character development. This a rpg and not a walking simulator. The multiple POV just offered a much better plot compared to Suikoden 4. The problem is the game seems over ambitious and i think it was rushed a lot.

Suikoden 4 has the opposite problem, it is under ambitious: the army (boat) battles were dumbed down, the battle animations were lazy and repetitive, the plot and main rune was extremely similar to Suikoden I, among other problems.

Suikoden 4 ruined the series, it was generally regarded as bad at the time. If nothing else, the sales numbers agree that S3 was the better game. When Suikoden 5 came out, the series good name was damaged and couldn't be saved. Of course, Konami moving away from rpg production and gaming in general also heavenly influenced the series downfall.

[Furry Wrecking Crew]

tili1 eredeti hozzászólása:

Weird when everybody goes off-topic. The topic was about Junko's design.

Suikoden III was an excellent game, it introduced a lot of new unique gimmicks that made the series better: Skills (which made characters more unique) and the Multiple POV.

Yes, they reused a lot of scenarios, but that was common at the early 3D era. Also, pretty scenarios are eye candy and not as important as plot and character development. This a rpg and not a walking simulator. The multiple POV just offered a much better plot compared to Suikoden 4. The problem is the game seems over ambitious and i think it was rushed a lot.

Suikoden 4 has the opposite problem, it is under ambitious: the army (boat) battles were dumbed down, the battle animations were lazy and repetitive, the plot and main rune was extremely similar to Suikoden I, among other problems.

Suikoden 4 ruined the series, it was generally regarded as bad at the time. If nothing else, the sales numbers agree that S3 was the better game. When Suikoden 5 came out, the series good name was damaged and couldn't be saved. Of course, Konami moving away from rpg production and gaming in general also heavenly influenced the series downfall.

The multiple POV did not make anything better, it made the game super boring. They recognized this, obviously, as they never did that again. The plot was OK at best, but made worse by having to see it THREE times...

At least 4 was fun. It had exploration in spades, which 3 had none of. i could argue no one bought 4 because so many people were disappointed with 3, the real game that killed the series. It sold well, but no one regarded it as better as 2 or 1.

[tili1]

[[quote=RPG Historian;3781371939907068688]The multiple POV did not make anything better, it made the game super boring. They recognized this, obviously, as they never did that again. The plot was OK at best, but made worse by having to see it THREE times...[/quote]

That's subjective. I kind of like to see how different characters experience different events. Different POVs could make wonders in Eiyuden as it is a game about characters (which Suikoden also is).

RPG Historian eredeti hozzászólása:

no one regarded it as better as 2 or 1.

I will tell you again, that was not the case. I used to frequent the "suikosource" forum and the majority of fans really disliked the game. The old messages are still there, if you don't believe me: https://www.suikosource.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=13858&start=15

I will say there were people who liked the game, but they were the minority.

[helladarionx]

Eu tenho nojo do suikoden 05 por toda lacração e feminismo dele. O suikoden 5 é uma aberração feminista nojenta.

[Neonivek]

When I think about Suikoden 3 and 4... the one thing I don't associate it with is bad character designs.

Just because those games are weak, it doesn't mean it was bad in every way. (for example Suikoden 3 had the best opening song in the series AND it is what paved the way for monsters to not suck)

---

Not that there weren't some pretty lousy character designs in 3... but I can't think of a Suikoden that didn't have a bad design here and there.

[T]

Neonivek eredeti hozzászólása:

When I think about Suikoden 3 and 4... the one thing I don't associate it with is bad character designs.

Just because those games are weak, it doesn't mean it was bad in every way. (for example Suikoden 3 had the best opening song in the series AND it is what paved the way for monsters to not suck)

---

Not that there weren't some pretty lousy character designs in 3... but I can't think of a Suikoden that didn't have a bad design here and there.

I like most of the main cast of III. Especially Thomas and Cecile. Geddoe and his crew are also great.