auro 3d

[It´sAllAimAssist]

should windows spatial be off for this option?

[Bitwolf]

Originally posted by It´sAllAimAssist:

should windows spatial be off for this option?

I would assume so, cant verify as I don't use it myself but generally I would say its probably not best to combine two forms of "fake" surround sound.

[It´sAllAimAssist]

Originally posted by Bitwolf:

Originally posted by It´sAllAimAssist:

should windows spatial be off for this option?

I would assume so, cant verify as I don't use it myself but generally I would say its probably not best to combine two forms of "fake" surround sound.

yes, I played a bit with it, it sounds correct this way. Just was not sure how it worked.

for atmos windows should be to stereo and if the game supports atmos it does that
but if it does not some games needs to be set to 5.1/7.1 and the atmos program will fake VS...while my other virtual surround wants windows set to 7.1 . It´s a bit confusing sometimes. but thank you =)

[JohnTravoltage]

Originally posted by Bitwolf:

Originally posted by It´sAllAimAssist:

should windows spatial be off for this option?

I would assume so, cant verify as I don't use it myself but generally I would say its probably not best to combine two forms of "fake" surround sound.

Keep in mind that the auro 3d since its built into the game is not really a 'fake' digital surround sound solution. The game provides full 3d directions and audio (after doing other processing such as raytracing if you have that option on) to auro 3d, and auro 3d does a binaural/HRTF mix of the audio and outputs stereo.

It isn't like digital surround sound where it takes the games output, then does some basic EQ/post processing on it from a games surround sound output. Its actually using full directional information within the game, just like how the tempest 3d audio engine for ps5 works.

Sadly other games that utilise 3d audio like dead space remake don't support ingame 3d audio solutions and only offer dolby atmos (multichannel output designed for dolby atmos third party software to mix properly), so returnal is really good in the audio department because all you need is good stereo headphones.

[Bitwolf]

Originally posted by JohnTravoltage:

Originally posted by Bitwolf:

I would assume so, cant verify as I don't use it myself but generally I would say its probably not best to combine two forms of "fake" surround sound.

Keep in mind that the auro 3d since its built into the game is not really a 'fake' digital surround sound solution. The game provides full 3d directions and audio (after doing other processing such as raytracing if you have that option on) to auro 3d, and auro 3d does a binaural/HRTF mix of the audio and outputs stereo.

It isn't like digital surround sound where it takes the games output, then does some basic EQ/post processing on it from a games surround sound output. Its actually using full directional information within the game, just like how the tempest 3d audio engine for ps5 works.

Sadly other games that utilise 3d audio like dead space remake don't support ingame 3d audio solutions and only offer dolby atmos (multichannel output designed for dolby atmos third party software to mix properly), so returnal is really good in the audio department because all you need is good stereo headphones.

I say fake in the sense of it doesn't actually add more speakers to your headphones, it's still just two drivers with some very complicated trickery and distortion to give the illusion of surround.

[JohnTravoltage]

Originally posted by Bitwolf:

Originally posted by JohnTravoltage:

Keep in mind that the auro 3d since its built into the game is not really a 'fake' digital surround sound solution. The game provides full 3d directions and audio (after doing other processing such as raytracing if you have that option on) to auro 3d, and auro 3d does a binaural/HRTF mix of the audio and outputs stereo.

It isn't like digital surround sound where it takes the games output, then does some basic EQ/post processing on it from a games surround sound output. Its actually using full directional information within the game, just like how the tempest 3d audio engine for ps5 works.

Sadly other games that utilise 3d audio like dead space remake don't support ingame 3d audio solutions and only offer dolby atmos (multichannel output designed for dolby atmos third party software to mix properly), so returnal is really good in the audio department because all you need is good stereo headphones.

I say fake in the sense of it doesn't actually add more speakers to your headphones, it's still just two drivers with some very complicated trickery and distortion to give the illusion of surround.

However, having more speakers etc. is not actually ideal, the most accurate soundscape you can recreate is an accurate binaural mix taking into account your headshape etc. with 1 speaker per ear.

Surround sound systems can only replicate a limited amount of directions of audio, and the rest has to be faked. Even dolby atmos in cinemas with an extreme amount of speakers has to do processing for the gaps, its just very advanced. and even if you had an infinite amount of speakers arranged perfectly around you, the distance from your head to them would introduce a gap in what it can replicate.

The only way to accurately recreate audio is with 1 high quality speaker per ear, and a good binaural mix, ideally with customised HRTF for your personal headshape alongside accurate audio processing ingame. its a bit absurd to get some magical perfect HRTF for your own head and they are only so advanced currently, but the idea that a binaural stereo mix is more 'fake' than a surround sound system is honestly backwards. THe physical surround sound system is more fake and makes more assumptions about the sound than a stereo mix.

[It´sAllAimAssist]

I get what you are saying JohnTravoltage.
basically in real life there´s a bunch variations in sound that acts as cue that our ear pick up on to tell us distance, direction etc. What these tech´s do is take the basic sound in the game and try to artificially add these cue´s?

I´ve never been bothered by it being "fake", it´s a convincing "illusion" about as much as the fact the my tv is always 8 feet away but the character is running around a 3d space where I perceive depth and distance but it´s really just forced perspective kind of.
I´m just hearing a heavily processed recording to begin with,being recreated through a slew of electronics anyway so what´s does it matter if there a bit more processing on top of that.

that´s my rationale anyway, people are free to like real surround systems if that´s what they prefer. I probably would have one as well. if it had not been such a pain to set up on account of m wife´s choice of furniture in the living room.

But I´m pleased to hear my headphone setup that was fairly expensive is actually doing a good job and that my unfinished thoughts on how it all works was in the ballpark.

[JohnTravoltage]

Originally posted by It´sAllAimAssist:

I get what you are saying JohnTravoltage.
basically in real life there´s a bunch variations in sound that acts as cue that our ear pick up on to tell us distance, direction etc. What these tech´s do is take the basic sound in the game and try to artificially add these cue´s?

Pretty much, the difference is that with surround sound (digital or real) they only have usually 5 or 7 channels which are just basic directions. With a good stereo setup and proper game audio though it has the exact direction and distance to the sound samples and can accurately alter the audio based on HRTF (simulating our head shape) etc. way more accurate than 5.1/7.1, and its basically the closest we can get to 'real' audio.

Surround sound is still useful, you obviously can't put hi fi headphones on multiple people, and you can just sit down and it works. But I feel like audio hardware makers have massively gaslit people into thinking surround sound setups are the best when its just not true, they are a big compromise.

Im just passionate about it because we finally have actual good audio that sony has been pushing for, along with some other things like steam audio etc. and I want to make sure that it doesn't get passed off as being worse to 5.1/7.1 setups and having these discussions out there hopefully helps more people find out

[ELMatadario]

i have stereo headphones, which audio output i should use? can resonance or auro 3d audio can be used with a stereo output?

[JohnTravoltage]

Originally posted by ELMatadario:

i have stereo headphones, which audio output i should use? can resonance or auro 3d audio can be used with a stereo output?

Yes, they are made for stereo output. I found that auro 3d sounded the nicest. The brief description seems to be pretty accurate at describing how they sound compared to each other.

[šþØÕk¥]

Originally posted by JohnTravoltage:

Originally posted by Bitwolf:

I say fake in the sense of it doesn't actually add more speakers to your headphones, it's still just two drivers with some very complicated trickery and distortion to give the illusion of surround.

However, having more speakers etc. is not actually ideal, the most accurate soundscape you can recreate is an accurate binaural mix taking into account your headshape etc. with 1 speaker per ear.

Surround sound systems can only replicate a limited amount of directions of audio, and the rest has to be faked. Even dolby atmos in cinemas with an extreme amount of speakers has to do processing for the gaps, its just very advanced. and even if you had an infinite amount of speakers arranged perfectly around you, the distance from your head to them would introduce a gap in what it can replicate.

The only way to accurately recreate audio is with 1 high quality speaker per ear, and a good binaural mix, ideally with customised HRTF for your personal headshape alongside accurate audio processing ingame. its a bit absurd to get some magical perfect HRTF for your own head and they are only so advanced currently, but the idea that a binaural stereo mix is more 'fake' than a surround sound system is honestly backwards. THe physical surround sound system is more fake and makes more assumptions about the sound than a stereo mix.

yup, wish more people would understand this.

afterall, you only have 2 ears.

Also wish more devs would better implement, true, 3d/binaural audio.

[šþØÕk¥]

Originally posted by It´sAllAimAssist:

I get what you are saying JohnTravoltage.
basically in real life there´s a bunch variations in sound that acts as cue that our ear pick up on to tell us distance, direction etc. What these tech´s do is take the basic sound in the game and try to artificially add these cue´s?

I´ve never been bothered by it being "fake", it´s a convincing "illusion" about as much as the fact the my tv is always 8 feet away but the character is running around a 3d space where I perceive depth and distance but it´s really just forced perspective kind of.
I´m just hearing a heavily processed recording to begin with,being recreated through a slew of electronics anyway so what´s does it matter if there a bit more processing on top of that.

that´s my rationale anyway, people are free to like real surround systems if that´s what they prefer. I probably would have one as well. if it had not been such a pain to set up on account of m wife´s choice of furniture in the living room.

But I´m pleased to hear my headphone setup that was fairly expensive is actually doing a good job and that my unfinished thoughts on how it all works was in the ballpark.

good binaural audio and some quality headphones is the best way to experience audio. As far as being immersed and hearing the sounds.

Now you may arguably enjoy something more with a big 7.1+ setup when you got a bunch of friends around or whatever... but it isn't the best listening experience for you, yourself.

Availability is also limited, as most things don't use actual 3d/binaural audio.. especially movies and such. 5.1/7.1 works really well, but won't compare to true binaural.

There's also the aspect of actually feeling the audio, which is harder to get from a pair of cans. (a good LFE can help with that.. i use a buttkicker)