Thoughts after 36 stars

[Tubey]

Hey,

I've just beaten the game, every star, 82% of achievements along the way, and I thought I'd share some thoughts about why - even after putting 60 hours into it - I actually don't like this game, certainly nowhere near the amount I loved Two Point Hospital.

First, the good:

1. I still love the humour. It's the right level of quirkiness, the radio DJs are nearly all delightful, even the odd little pop culture references on item descriptions are great.

2. The variety of classes and the variation in money making mechanics in the mid- to late-game are appreciated and stop the game becoming unplayable.

Now, the bad.

1. This was a slog to play. It needs an additional speed to get through the game, because often (especially the last level) you're waiting for year end to add more courses/gain prestige to unlock more.

2. The AI is busted. Hygiene/bathroom breaks particularly. You CAN mitigate it by having plenty of toilets/showers and making sure you don't book things like student union events etc. at the same time as classes, but the AI still really doesn't prioritise bathroom/shower breaks, nor does it prioritise correctly many other aspects of the game.

3. It's just so easy. The entire game. The difficulty is just running the clock, not in the actual gameplay. I spent 60 hours when it could have been a third of that time - about 40 hours was basically watching the screen. I don't think there's a realistic fail state in this game; if there is, I didn't come close to it, and I can't for the life of me figure out what it'd be, and I'm not a pr0gamerz type of guy. Oddly, the game gets easier towards the end - there's a penultimate level involving the beach/getting money for student happiness and it's ridiculously easy.

4. Too much of the game isn't explained. For example, you can limit student intake, but I'm sure there's no explanation of this feature in-game, same as how the calendar/schedule isn't explained either. Added to this, there's entire screens you straight up simply don't need to enter, ever - a few screens of stats that are pointless. Did you know you can increase staff wages? Don't blame you if you didn't, as there's literally never a reason to do so - I've never had a member of staff threaten to resign or anything AKA Theme Hospital.

5. A minor thing, but no ability to add custom music. This was a BIG part of the game for me in TPH - I love the DJs but the music is just elevator music; being able to add my own and keep the DJs was great.

6. A lack of sandbox replayability. Because everything is so cookie-cutter by-the-numbers, once you're done with the campaign there's very little you'd actually want to do in sandbox - the last level is such a chore and is basically sandbox mode anyway that it murders your desire to play anymore. Admittedly, this is subjective, but it's certainly how I felt coming out of it.

So yeah, I see the potential in the game, I put 60+ hours into it, I love the idea, the theming, everything... except the game itself. I beat it to spite it because it wasted so much of my time; I basically fell into a sunk cost fallacy. I kept thinking it'll click and fall into place and I'd enjoy it, but I never did.

[Purple Tentacle]

I have beaten the 36th star too, only 2 achievments are missing - buggy ?. I fully agree with your point, and I add that some bugs occured on big map : pathfinding makes the game crazy, and the goals unreachable. I m disappointed on many points, I fear of being considered like a milk cow in the coming DLC. So much objects and ideas presents in Hospital are missing in Campus, I expect to meet in next DLC. It could be okay, but the prize will be the judge.

[Sombrero]

To me it feels like a case of the game wasn't ready to be shipped but it was shipped because making games in 2022 isn't cheap (of this scope at least).

Some levels like the cheeseball one feel like they are not balanced properly at all with how the AI works (the 75% hygiene rating is just horrible to go through).

To be honest I felt about the same with TPH. I think the biggest difference is that this game doesn't force patients onto you, you choose how many students you get and you control the pace with the summer break system.

Alll in all I don't mind all of this but they really need to significantly improve the AI and give more control on staff and student placements. Like being able to choose which staff member works where precisely (which is quite important for teachers I'd say) and simple stuff like being able to say this dormitory is for 2nd year archeologists instead of just archeologists. Some courses have drastically different classes depending on their years.

I don't think the game needs to have a lose condition as such. I think it was built as a "positive" management game where the challenge is only in reaching the 3 stars rating in each level rather than going through a game over screen. I don't mind it, but again the AI and lack of quality of life are making this a bit painful to go through.

[Tubey]

Originally posted by Sombrero:

Alll in all I don't mind all of this but they really need to significantly improve the AI and give more control on staff and student placements. Like being able to choose which staff member works where precisely (which is quite important for teachers I'd say) and simple stuff like being able to say this dormitory is for 2nd year archeologists instead of just archeologists. Some courses have drastically different classes depending on their years.

Very good point. You can separate dormitories by sex, but... why? What's the point? From a gameplay standpoint, it makes no difference whatsoever. Hell, there's no morphological differences between males and females in the game anyway, so even 'visually' it's pointless.

As you say, being able to separate by year as well as subject choices (which you can do of course) would be more ideal.

Even little things like having staff rooms available only to certain subjects, or a teacher- or janitor-only staff room option etc. Just so little customisation options, so all that happens is you create the same campus over and over again, usually just copy and pasting rooms and pressing fast forward til the end of year.

That's not a satisfactory gameplay loop.

[ᑎ I ᖇ ᐯ ᗩ ᑎ O ᗩ]

Great review, would read again ! ;o)

Seriously now, every point you make is valid, and I hope the developers read it.

[bstangeby]

I can not say this game give me the replay feeling. I have tried 3 custom game and just lost playing after 10 years or so.
In hospital bought every DLC and have no idea how many times over the years played custom games lasting two or three days.

[r.wardy]

Originally posted by Purple Tentacle:

I have beaten the 36th star too, only 2 achievments are missing - buggy ?. I fully agree with your point, and I add that some bugs occured on big map : pathfinding makes the game crazy, and the goals unreachable.

It's true, there are some bugs, but how are some goals unreachable? You got all stars, so have others.
There is one bigger issue with the moles not showing up, I read about it, but I had no problems in my play through, never needed to restart a map.

[Alun1]

i don't understand how some goals are "unreachable" i've gotten all stars and 35 achievements. i'm working through the career goals just for giggles.

i've completed all course goals (level up students) and unlocking room and staff deco.

the only one i can see an issue being the staff happiness.

[ender_sam]

I just looked up "big cow" and got this

[Theomax]

I agree with these points. I think TPC is missing additional grade functionality - which makes you care about the students during each year whether they pass or fail, and what you can do during the year to ensure they pass. I get the sense most player speed it up just to keep each year ticking by so they can make changes with not reason to play the year out to help students or staff beyond huge batching of training or hoping they make it through classes.

[LongVin]

Originally posted by Alun1:

i don't understand how some goals are "unreachable" i've gotten all stars and 35 achievements. i'm working through the career goals just for giggles.

i've completed all course goals (level up students) and unlocking room and staff deco.

the only one i can see an issue being the staff happiness.

How did you get lose the 5 cheeseballs? I never lost a match after the map that introduces it and that was only the first match that you have to lose.

Also, the drop out one. It seems like every time my students are in danger of dropping out they always change their minds.

[Alun1]

Originally posted by LongVin:

Originally posted by Alun1:

i don't understand how some goals are "unreachable" i've gotten all stars and 35 achievements. i'm working through the career goals just for giggles.

i've completed all course goals (level up students) and unlocking room and staff deco.

the only one i can see an issue being the staff happiness.

How did you get lose the 5 cheeseballs? I never lost a match after the map that introduces it and that was only the first match that you have to lose.

Also, the drop out one. It seems like every time my students are in danger of dropping out they always change their minds.

spam matching after first lose. students weren't good enough yet so i lost maybe 5 or 6. then waited out a year and started winning.

[ElPrezCBF]

Originally posted by Tubey:

It's just so easy. The entire game. The difficulty is just running the clock, not in the actual gameplay. I spent 60 hours when it could have been a third of that time - about 40 hours was basically watching the screen. I don't think there's a realistic fail state in this game; if there is, I didn't come close to it, and I can't for the life of me figure out what it'd be, and I'm not a pr0gamerz type of guy. Oddly, the game gets easier towards the end - there's a penultimate level involving the beach/getting money for student happiness and it's ridiculously easy.

This is a tricky point. TPH without the DLCs was pretty easy. When the DLCs introduced patient waves, secret aliens (even in Chasm 24 where identifying them is not an objective), disaster stabilizers/time portals, new rep mechanics etc. to add some challenge, many of them did make it more challenging. But not in the sense of encouraging strategic gameplay but rather tedious albeit necessary cheese tactics (like going all out staff training specialization and max prices at the expense of patient happiness) to beat the game into submission. And this has not been liked by many players.

Tbh, I play games in other genres way more complex and challenging than TPH like Paradox grand strategy, Total War and Frostpunk. Yet I still play TPH not for a steep challenge but for its casual, fun and relatively relaxing gameplay that stimulates some brain cells without overloading them. It's ideal for say an evening after work when I just want to relax on a more casual game.

So if TPC were to add more challenges, I think it would also come in the form of future DLCs like TPH. And the challenge is for the devs to design these DLCs to present challenging mechanics that are actually fun rather than tedious.

[Furio]

I have 36 stars and 100+ and I agree entirely with OP. The game is very easy and there seems to be no way to fail, as you basically have unlimited time.

Also agree on the "many things are not explained". For example that there are dimishing returns on items. So instead of placing the same 2 paintings, you get higher room level by placing 2 different paitings. But room levels aren't really explained and whether you have a high room level or low room level doesn't make a noticeable difference (expect that one level where you have to have X level 5 rooms).

Furniture Items aren't really explained either. The coffin bookcase, is that only effective for goths or just everyone? Better put one in each dorm. Just for good measure. But why even put it in a dorm? You can just as well put it in a corridor, or a lounge.. the game does nothing to explain why or where it's best to place them. The "class" book cases all state "+5 Learning" but apparently a Virtual Normality book case is just as effective for learning bonus for wizard as a Wizardry book case is (but they might need the Wizardry for an assignment).

The panic room has three different types of obstacle courses. The game doesn't tell you whether it's just cosmetic, or whether each has a different effect, or if it's better to place all of them in one room or make separate rooms with each.

Some rooms are unnecessary. There is little to no reason to ever build a research room after having unlocked the level 3 upgrades. The Private Tuition Room seems pointless as well. No reason at all to build them after the level they're introduced. Focus on levelling up your teachers and librarians instead.

The janitors can come with (or learn) a Security skill, but only on some of the levels will it actually be required. On the levels which has no "invaders" it's a completely dead and useless skill. Why even bother generating janitors with that skill on those?

But with that being said, it's still a pretty chill game with great graphics.

[r.wardy]

Originally posted by LongVin:

How did you get lose the 5 cheeseballs? I never lost a match after the map that introduces it and that was only the first match that you have to lose.

If you are willing to invest time, you can go back to the Fluffborough map and set the student intake for cheeseball to 0, after all of them have graduated start the course again. Now your year 1 students have to face Jumbo Mega Team, a game they cannot win.
On the other hand, if you're pressed for time and cruel and merciless, you can also just kick out all 3rd year students and maybe also the 2nd year ones for the same result.

Originally posted by LongVin:

Also, the drop out one. It seems like every time my students are in danger of dropping out they always change their minds.

I found a good place to get students to drop out is Spiffinmoore. Just do as you always do but don't hire janitors with security skill, don't provide any form of entertainment, restrict showers and bathrooms to teachers only and remove or close the pastoral support. This way your students will still get decent grades and not fail - which doesn't count - the year. You'll still get tuition fees and bonus money from level ups, but they will often refuse to pay rent. In my "best" year, I had 13 drop out at once.

[cemicica]

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