Does anyone use Sniper Rifles?

[Kraig]

I find them almost useless and only use Jade's for Silent Kills. For the loud fights I never use them, and the Assault rifles/Bouncers are really just there for generating Rage/KW or using Desperado, while the Shotguns are the stars of every single battle.

Shotguns on all three characters is just better in pretty much every case. Anyone disagree or find a use for them? Maybe there is a tactic out there about staying far away but I find vortex/teleporting the lone enemies into the groups is much better than trying to pick them off.

[pmnoxx]

IMHO Sniper Rifles are the worst weapons for a few reasons:
- They have worst accuracy, you have to stand exactly 20 tiles away to get 100% hit chance.
- They have 1 ammo only.
- Their damage isn't much better than assault rifles, just slightly more crit.

They are always worse in combat than any other weapon.
If I shoot then next turn I have to reload, but if I reload then I can't move. If I don't move then my accuracy won't be 100%, because I have to be exactly 20 tiles away for 100% accuracy, which rarely happens. Most enemies take cover, so you have to move in order to have a chance to shoot.

I think sniper rifles should get an accuracy buff, let's say get 100% accuracy for ranges between 75% distance to 100% distance in order to worth considering.

However, in case niche cases they are good, for example if you have 100% rage you can start combat with opening sniper shot for a lot of damage. Those situations are rare, so I don't bother.

[James505Games]

Some great thoughts here. Personally, I'm a big fan of using Jade as my 'range' character. Helping to pick off the annoying one's while Elvis and Diggs are the 'damage dealers'. Of course, it all is a matter of perspective and options are great.

We are always looking on how we can better balance weapons and skills so thanks for the heads up. We'll take this to the devs.

[KasparL]

Originally posted by Kraig:

I find them almost useless and only use Jade's for Silent Kills. For the loud fights I never use them, and the Assault rifles/Bouncers are really just there for generating Rage/KW or using Desperado, while the Shotguns are the stars of every single battle.

Shotguns on all three characters is just better in pretty much every case. Anyone disagree or find a use for them? Maybe there is a tactic out there about staying far away but I find vortex/teleporting the lone enemies into the groups is much better than trying to pick them off.

I used it when Jade is in the party since I play her as a sharpshooter. Depending on the situation I sometimes give Jade a sniper rifle and a assault rifle, or sometimes 2 sniper rifles.
I agree the damage of their standard, non crit hit is a bit underwhelming but the range is good (for the non-silent ones). But when it crits its really good, and fire shots was good too.

[InfiniteMads]

I only use the silenced one either on jade or ba-mahdi but usually give elvis and digs the shotgun but ba-mahdi with her emp+shotgun is pretty powerful too.

[Evil Badger]

Totally agree, sniper are pretty useless. The shotgun is so much stronger than any other weapon. They should rebalance the weapons , for example give a much higher chance of Crit and + crit damage/damage for sniper. Another alternative would be to give the Snipers Armor piercing, it would finaly make a real alternative to my rifles which are superior because of their versatility and ammo.

Just the fact that you can multi apply any effects with the shotgun make them so much better than any other gun+ the guarantee crit.

[KasparL]

Originally posted by Evil Badger:

Totally agree, sniper are pretty useless. The shotgun is so much stronger than any other weapon. They should rebalance the weapons , for example give a much higher chance of Crit and + crit damage/damage for sniper. Another alternative would be to give the Snipers Armor piercing, it would finaly make a real alternative to my rifles which are superior because of their versatility and ammo.

Just the fact that you can multi apply any effects with the shotgun make them so much better than any other gun+ the guarantee crit.

Armor piercing would be a bit too powerful for stealth though? Maybe buff the range? Or reduce the hit chance penalty a little bit.

[pmnoxx]

To me sniper rifles are just inferior version of assault rifles or bouncer rifles, for example:
tier 2 sniper rifle 70 base damage, 100 crit damage, 1 ammo, 18range.
tier 2 bouncer rifles 70 base damage, 100 crit damage, 1 ammo, 20 range.

Bouncer has stats similar to sniper rifle, but it's more versatile, it can shoot at any range from 1 to 40, without accuracy penalty, even behind cover. It has only 1 ammo slot, but often you can shoot again without moving, so reloading and shooting again is viable. I am fine putting +20/30 crit mag on bouncer, while I wouldn't be on sniper rifle, it's just much better option at dealing crit damage.

With a single bounce Bounce Rifles get +20% crit chance, but have 90% accuracy, this matches crit chance of sniper rifle at max range. Having 90% accuracy at any range is great, which is better than sniper rifles being 100% accurate at exactly 18 tiles away, 0% accuracy at 19 tiles away, 50% at 1 tile away.

Bouncer rifle are clearly superior to sniper rifle, due to higher crit damage, accuracy, range.

Sniper rifles just have a bad action point efficiency, you can't shoot them every turn because you will likely be at a wrong distance or have to reload.

I like using Bouncer Rifles with Jade or pretty much any character, as a utility weapon, which can hit from far distance, any distance actually, even behind cover.

[wei270]

the problem of sniper is mobility with enemy is cover all the time the sniper hit chance are very low, and not all cover are destoryable. So for me right now the sniper is only used as opener and rarely used any other time.

[Kraig]

It's interesting because at the start of the game when you first get Jade, Snipers feel powerful. You don't mind the reload because the main shot is so powerful it makes it worth it. But then you realise it's only because Jade's gun is a Tier II when everyone else is using Tier I.

I think the game over-values range and under-values multi-hitting enemies. With the current cover system, it's not nearly as beneficial to have long range (except on bouncers).

The game also really rewards crit kills, and with a shotgun hitting 3-4+ enemies you can usually set it up so that you have a 70+ chance to crit and will kill at least one of them. Then you get to attack the same (now weakened) group again.... and then again. Basically wiping an entire unit of enemies with one weapon activation and maybe 1 or 2 supportive actions.

Shotguns can also destroy cover and set off barrels WHILE still hitting enemies with the main shot...

Originally posted by KasparL:

I used it when Jade is in the party since I play her as a sharpshooter. Depending on the situation I sometimes give Jade a sniper rifle and a assault rifle, or sometimes 2 sniper rifles.
I agree the damage of their standard, non crit hit is a bit underwhelming but the range is good (for the non-silent ones). But when it crits its really good, and fire shots was good too.

Try those same crits/fire shots with a shotgun against 3+ enemies. It's much more satisfying ;)

[KasparL]

Originally posted by Kraig:

It's interesting because at the start of the game when you first get Jade, Snipers feel powerful. You don't mind the reload because the main shot is so powerful it makes it worth it. But then you realise it's only because Jade's gun is a Tier II when everyone else is using Tier I.

I think the game over-values range and under-values multi-hitting enemies. With the current cover system, it's not nearly as beneficial to have long range (except on bouncers).

The game also really rewards crit kills, and with a shotgun hitting 3-4+ enemies you can usually set it up so that you have a 70+ chance to crit and will kill at least one of them. Then you get to attack the same (now weakened) group again.... and then again. Basically wiping an entire unit of enemies with one weapon activation and maybe 1 or 2 supportive actions.

Shotguns can also destroy cover and set of barrels WHILE still hitting enemies with the main shot...

Originally posted by KasparL:

I used it when Jade is in the party since I play her as a sharpshooter. Depending on the situation I sometimes give Jade a sniper rifle and a assault rifle, or sometimes 2 sniper rifles.
I agree the damage of their standard, non crit hit is a bit underwhelming but the range is good (for the non-silent ones). But when it crits its really good, and fire shots was good too.

Try those same crits/fire shots with a shotgun against 3+ enemies. It's much more satisfying ;)

Thats what I did with, plus with range schpe shotgum was really fun

I think sniper rifle just have less utility but could still be useful against enemies like whisperer since they are always in the open and its good to stay out of range.

[Evil Badger]

Originally posted by KasparL:

Originally posted by Evil Badger:

Totally agree, sniper are pretty useless. The shotgun is so much stronger than any other weapon. They should rebalance the weapons , for example give a much higher chance of Crit and + crit damage/damage for sniper. Another alternative would be to give the Snipers Armor piercing, it would finaly make a real alternative to my rifles which are superior because of their versatility and ammo.

Just the fact that you can multi apply any effects with the shotgun make them so much better than any other gun+ the guarantee crit.

Armor piercing would be a bit too powerful for stealth though? Maybe buff the range? Or reduce the hit chance penalty a little bit.

You just need to make the only stealth sniper non armor piercing.:)

[Befire]

I used the Jade with two snipers until the end of the game. It's very easy to hit crits and if you throw it at the right distance you'll always get a good hit.

[Johann Gambolputty of Ulm]

Originally posted by Befire:

I used the Jade with two snipers until the end of the game. It's very easy to hit crits and if you throw it at the right distance you'll always get a good hit.

This. I'm so addicted to using her as a Sniper that i almost never used Bha or the Jarhead. Ammo limitations can be tackled with magazine upgrades; crit enhancers are the must. Add to this a chip that increases the range of her power and give her some spawn one (Witchdoctor or Mimic one), and you're golden.

[Sharkinbear]

I'm not critiquing anyone negatively here but it sounds like some people have a misunderstanding of what snipers are used for. Sure they are combat weapons but if you have played year zero then you understand that they are mainly ways to thin out groups before the real battle begins.

The game is designed in a way that perk load outs should maybe be a thing you can switch out of combat, I think. But overall, the silence weapons are king at their job. Putting an extended mag for an additional shot on the sniper can get you multi kills easy without alerting anyone. When the battles start, swap to a better weapon for sure but it's hard to say that they are outright useless. They are tuned enough for exactly what they are for. Obviously, that's my opinion and you can make what ever case you want but snipers are more of a tool and they fit the part well.

Pro-tip for early game is that Elvis is actually a better sniper than jade early game. He has multiple passive that give better crit before she does while flanking.

[drusca]

Yeah perk load outs a la ghost of tsushima would be useful.