Enemy super lucky shot in hard mode way too frequent

[wei270]

ok i know it is hard mode by you really need to look at your numbers for hitting though heavy cover at range firing up hill, 3 caster just never seem to miss even with save scuming. i mean what are the chances all 2 of them keep getting though the hard cover at 8 square away and one of them keep getting thought the light cover.

why have a cover system when they don't really work?

[Laurykat]

It does work, but some enemies have very high accuracy settings, especially if they are shooting from the optimal range for their weapons, which the AI will tend to do in the higher difficulty modes.

You can also get pretty accurate shots on enemies behind cover if you do this, it's not rare for your snipers to have 70%+ chance to hit a target behind cover if you're about 12 tiles away, for example.

As a general advice, however, Miasma isn't a game that rewards turtling down and hoping to win shot trades. It becomes obvious pretty early that what will win you the fights is being forward and creating a good action economy, making every of your turns count. It's been said many times in these boards, this is not X-Com, and does not try to be. It's a different formula that works brilliantly if you can make the most of it.

[Martin]

No it doesn't work, the game is clearly using a flatfile system, I've had misses at 99% 98%86% and so on and the ai hitting at extreme range with those mugger pistols.. in full cover... at an angle when it should be impossible. I'm offered 46% when a target is in the same position, which for me is always a miss.

For the ai, it hits more often than it misses. In fact the ai hits about 98% of the time, very rarely does it miss, in full cover.. extremely rarely in partial. You just have to accept the hit system is broken perpetually.

And that fans like the above will protect the glory of the game no matter what you say.

There are the odd hits every so often and that accounts for the mathematical failure of cpu's not cycling correctly, due to floating point errors in their design. So every so often the software makes a mistake and lets you hit when it meant for you to miss.

[Laurykat]

Originally posted by Martin:

No it doesn't work, the game is clearly using a flatfile system, I've had misses at 99% 98%86% and so on and the ai hitting at extreme range with those mugger pistols.. in full cover... at an angle when it should be impossible. I'm offered 46% when a target is in the same position, which for me is always a miss.

For the ai, it hits more often than it misses. In fact the ai hits about 98% of the time, very rarely does it miss, in full cover.. extremely rarely in partial. You just have to accept the hit system is broken perpetually.

And that fans like the above will protect the glory of the game no matter what you say.

While having an opinion is alright, lying is not, and you are lying, as you usually do anyway. You've had misses with 99% because there is still a 1% chance to miss, and if you had gone to school you'd know that. There was a thing called maths where they explained this. If you reload the game and try again you'll hit 99 out of 100 times. I'll bet you anything you want on it.

I can understand you think it the rolls are pre-loaded, because that's how X-Com does it, but this is not X-Com. It's, in fact, a much better tactical game, even though X-Com has other things that are better such as base management, upgrading, researching etc.

The AI has very high hit chances in the higher difficulties to increase the challenge. If you don't want challenge, play easy mode, that's why it's there.

I can't understand why someone would play hard difficulty and then complain that the game is hard. If it's just because you want to feel good about yourself, well tough luck, if you're not good enough then you're not good enough.

About 10% of the players who bought the game have already finished it in Full Tactical Alpha Editor so it's not -that- hard.

[wei270]

well there is hard then there is a rigged system. none of my shots are every 70% for enemy behind hard cover, it is more like 17 70% shots are no cover shots for me, and to see enemy both the caster and the collectors just pretty much blow though that is.......... ok.......... ok i understand the speakers are suppose to be op, but casters are just grunts come on.

[Laurykat]

Originally posted by wei270:

well there is hard then there is a rigged system. none of my shots are every 70% for enemy behind hard cover, it is more like 17 70% shots are no cover shots for me, and to see enemy both the caster and the collectors just pretty much blow though that is.......... ok.......... ok i understand the speakers are suppose to be op, but casters are just grunts come on.

I don't know if you got to the part where you can mind control enemies, but that helps a lot to understand how their hit chance works. When you control an enemy, you can see what are their optimal hit ranges and some of their abilities. Some enemies actually get higher hit chance when they're from afar, and some have perks that allows them to ignore cover, or make low cover count as high. One of your characters has one such perk too.

Once again, in my opinion the game is not that hard, and as pointed above, only 1 week after release 10% of the people who bought it have already finished it in the hardest difficulty setting there is, and that is a very high number. It's a matter of using your tools efficiently, the AI may have higher hit chance, but it's not as versatile as a human nor has the tools you have to turn situations around.

[Left-Hand Path]

Originally posted by Martin:

No it doesn't work, the game is clearly using a flatfile system, I've had misses at 99% 98%86% and so on and the ai hitting at extreme range with those mugger pistols.. in full cover... at an angle when it should be impossible. I'm offered 46% when a target is in the same position, which for me is always a miss.

For the ai, it hits more often than it misses. In fact the ai hits about 98% of the time, very rarely does it miss, in full cover.. extremely rarely in partial. You just have to accept the hit system is broken perpetually.

And that fans like the above will protect the glory of the game no matter what you say.

There are the odd hits every so often and that accounts for the mathematical failure of cpu's not cycling correctly, due to floating point errors in their design. So every so often the software makes a mistake and lets you hit when it meant for you to miss.

You use alot of smart words for someone who doesn´t understand how basic probability works.

You don´t like the game, thats fine. Really. I couldn´t care less if you like it, I do and in the end thats all that matters to me.

However trying to establish facts where there are none is worrysome. Are you that insecure ?

Just imagine doing a coinflip in real life, getting 7 times head in a row is unlikely, but it does happen, 1 in 128 times. So basically one out of 128 players will witness hitting (or getting hit) by seven 50 % shots in a row.

During my last Pathfinder session, one of my players rolled four natural 1s in a row. Really unlucky and highly unlikely, but that doesn´t mean that his dice are faulty.

Or play Warhammer or a similar tabletop system that uses alot of dice. You will witness alot of results you didn´t expect to happen.

We aren´t designed to handle true randomness very well apparently.

There are alot of interessting articles about the gambler´s falacy.

Or articles on how selective humans are when it comes to memory, meaning that bad results stick with you more.

[wei270]

Originally posted by Laurykat:

Originally posted by wei270:

well there is hard then there is a rigged system. none of my shots are every 70% for enemy behind hard cover, it is more like 17 70% shots are no cover shots for me, and to see enemy both the caster and the collectors just pretty much blow though that is.......... ok.......... ok i understand the speakers are suppose to be op, but casters are just grunts come on.

I don't know if you got to the part where you can mind control enemies, but that helps a lot to understand how their hit chance works. When you control an enemy, you can see what are their optimal hit ranges and some of their abilities. Some enemies actually get higher hit chance when they're from afar, and some have perks that allows them to ignore cover, or make low cover count as high. One of your characters has one such perk too.

Once again, in my opinion the game is not that hard, and as pointed above, only 1 week after release 10% of the people who bought it have already finished it in the hardest difficulty setting there is, and that is a very high number. It's a matter of using your tools efficiently, the AI may have higher hit chance, but it's not as versatile as a human nor has the tools you have to turn situations around.

it is not hard but the cover system can be flawed, these are not muturally excusive, we played x-com long wars before and its enemy is strong, hard more numerious, and we has power has more option than ever to tackle the problems given to use, BUT IT DID NOT TRIVIALIZE ITS OWN COVER SYSTEM

[Martin]

Originally posted by DJ Geräteschuppen(Ricochet):

Originally posted by Martin:

No it doesn't work, the game is clearly using a flatfile system, I've had misses at 99% 98%86% and so on and the ai hitting at extreme range with those mugger pistols.. in full cover... at an angle when it should be impossible. I'm offered 46% when a target is in the same position, which for me is always a miss.

For the ai, it hits more often than it misses. In fact the ai hits about 98% of the time, very rarely does it miss, in full cover.. extremely rarely in partial. You just have to accept the hit system is broken perpetually.

And that fans like the above will protect the glory of the game no matter what you say.

There are the odd hits every so often and that accounts for the mathematical failure of cpu's not cycling correctly, due to floating point errors in their design. So every so often the software makes a mistake and lets you hit when it meant for you to miss.

You use alot of smart words for someone who doesn´t understand how basic probability works.

You don´t like the game, thats fine. Really. I couldn´t care less if you like it, I do and in the end thats all that matters to me.

However trying to establish facts where there are none is worrysome. Are you that insecure ?

Just imagine doing a coinflip in real life, getting 7 times head in a row is unlikely, but it does happen, 1 in 128 times. So basically one out of 128 players will witness hitting (or getting hit) by seven 50 % shots in a row.

During my last Pathfinder session, one of my players rolled four natural 1s in a row. Really unlucky and highly unlikely, but that doesn´t mean that his dice are faulty.

Or play Warhammer or a similar tabletop system that uses alot of dice. You will witness alot of results you didn´t expect to happen.

We aren´t designed to handle true randomness very well apparently.

There are alot of interessting articles about the gambler´s falacy.

Or articles on how selective humans are when it comes to memory, meaning that bad results stick with you more.

What makes you think I don't like the game? What right do you think you have to form someone elses opinion? Read what I say.. don't make up fake news.

I have issues with some of the mechanics of the game, if I didn't like it at all, I'd not be playing it.

Coin Flip is 50-50 chance. This 1 in 128 is pure bs. If the coin is significantly wide enough it's a 33% chance or 1 in 3.. as it could technically land on it's side.

As for the rest.. there is no such thing as a dice roll in software.. or chance.. it simply does not exist.

The computer makes a list of numbers, then it makes a 2nd list, then it simply compares the 2 lists. If your list number is higher, you Hit. If it's lower, you Miss. If the given percentage is X then add 50 to the score. Which can weigh the score in a specific direction.

But all computers, all hardware is faulty by unfortunate design. All Gpu's all Cpu's. Are not perfect in calculations and every so often, the make a faulty mistake and miss the key.. It's why we make software language in 8's not 10's.. It's why your hard drive, sdd, m2 drive, memory, cpu cache.. isn't 100mb it's 128.. or 256.. because it's broken by design.

There is no such thing as chance or luck or even statistics really on a computer because it's all built on a foundation of sand and mud.

But within what we have.. within the rules we think exist, there is if we imagine it. Chance basically breaks down to a 1 - 1 chance. 50+ Hit. 0-49 Miss. On rare occasions an error will occur and you'll get a hit or a miss depending which side the decision lands on. That's all it is.. life will be what it is. Accept this and move on.

[Left-Hand Path]

Originally posted by Martin:

Coin Flip is 50-50 chance. This 1 in 128 is pure bs. If the coin is significantly wide enough it's a 33% chance or 1 in 3.. as it could technically land on it's side.

You are missing the point. Read again what I wrote: Getting the same result with a 50 - 50 chance 7 times in a row is 1 in 128. So out of a 128 people, one will get that result. Simple math.

Of course an algorythm cannot achieve true random, thats not what I claimed anyway, so please, for your own sake, don´t build up yet another strawman in this conversation, it´s tiresome.

What´s more likely, an statistical outlier that does happen in real life as well or your "cpu not cycling correctly" ?

Most algyrythms I am aware off are trialed and tested and work really well, with sample sizes in the millions.

You are doing the same mistake religious people do: Having a conclusion and then constructing pseudo-facts or half-truth where there are none.

At this point I really do hope you are just an elaborate troll. The alternative would be kind of sad, honestly.

[Chief Commandeur]

I can say that on light tactical, whenever an enemy took a shot at me they actually hit. And I was always behind cover. Something seemed broken, so I often had to use save scumming and items to alpha strike/stun them.

[KasparL]

Originally posted by Chief Commandeur:

I can say that on light tactical, whenever an enemy took a shot at me they actually hit. And I was always behind cover. Something seemed broken, so I often had to use save scumming and items to alpha strike/stun them.

Light tactical works differently, if you are flanked its guaranteed a hit.
Plus, enemies' weapons have different optimal range.

[Chief Commandeur]

Yes, I know, but I was never flanked. Diggs was in high cover once and three enemies hit him back to back with the super lucky hit popup. It just felt bugged.

[KasparL]

Originally posted by Chief Commandeur:

Yes, I know, but I was never flanked. Diggs was in high cover once and three enemies hit him back to back with the super lucky hit popup. It just felt bugged.

may unlucky or bugged, better report the bug with screenshots and let the devs to check on it if you are concerned

[Laurykat]

I can say that enemies that took shots at me hit me more often than not, I'd say about 80% of the time, but you have to keep in mind that the AI is probably set to only take shots with low risk factor. A lot of the time they just run around to position themselves when it seems like they could have taken a shot to see if they got lucky. Also the "lucky shot" or "super lucky shot" floating text has nothing to do with the actual chance to hit, only whether the target was behind low or high cover, from my experience. So if someone is behind high cover and because you're shooting with a good weapon from optimal range you have 75% chances to hit them, you still get the "super lucky hit" floaty, and it wasn't really that super lucky.

In general, it just seems to me that the AI is coded to try to optimise its shot chances rather than shooting wildly and hoping for the best, like you often see in X-Com.

That probably explains why most of the time they take a shot they actually hit it, but definitely not all of the time. Honestly, if the AI was human, it would think that every time I took a shot I hit them too, since I never risked shots with less than 70% chances. It's just about having a good shoot selection optimisation to maximise your action economy.

[wei270]

Originally posted by Laurykat:

I can say that enemies that took shots at me hit me more often than not, I'd say about 80% of the time, but you have to keep in mind that the AI is probably set to only take shots with low risk factor. A lot of the time they just run around to position themselves when it seems like they could have taken a shot to see if they got lucky. Also the "lucky shot" or "super lucky shot" floating text has nothing to do with the actual chance to hit, only whether the target was behind low or high cover, from my experience. So if someone is behind high cover and because you're shooting with a good weapon from optimal range you have 75% chances to hit them, you still get the "super lucky hit" floaty, and it wasn't really that super lucky.

In general, it just seems to me that the AI is coded to try to optimise its shot chances rather than shooting wildly and hoping for the best, like you often see in X-Com.

That probably explains why most of the time they take a shot they actually hit it, but definitely not all of the time. Honestly, if the AI was human, it would think that every time I took a shot I hit them too, since I never risked shots with less than 70% chances. It's just about having a good shoot selection optimisation to maximise your action economy.

ok it is truth they do take shots at optimal range, i have 30 hours in and the amount of time AI actually miss a shot is less then 10, we are just asking the devs to look at the numbers here.