Warehouse not sharing demanded goods with its own city

[creativespiral]

There's an issue with warehouses... I've got 80+ logs in my Kansas City warehouse, and Kansas City has demand for logs, but its 0% of its demand met... ie: even though there's tons of logs in the city, the residents can't seem to figure out how to get access to them. Similar issues with other resources in other cities. Population falling because people can't get goods out of their local warehouse.

[Lunareiya]

Hey guys,
We would like to have a closer look at this situation and I would kindly ask you to send a message to our support at [e-mail] with a detailed description of the issue and the affected savegame attached so they can investigate.
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Have a good one

[Dray Prescot]

You should not be using Warehouses to deliver Wood or any of the 1st 5 Consumer Goods (Grain, Corn, Wood, Beer, and Meat) to Cities, there is enough demand to just deliver those Goods directly from Source to Destination with dedicated Trains, that just have 2 or 3 stops on their short Routes.

Those of us that never use Warehouses, or rarely use them, never see these problems with Goods locked up "In Transit" and not being delivered and not being picked up.

All Warehouses are doing for you is introducing delays into your delivery networks that are already over stressed.

Remember that RE 2 Warehouses do NOT work like RE 1 Warehouses, they do not store goods that can be shared with a nearby City without using a train. They are NOT stockpiles of goods that no one has bought. They are merely a location where loaded Rail Cars are waiting to be transferred from one Train to another Train in order to reach an already determined destination, i.e. someone has already ordered them. They are Switching Yards.

Any goods that have not been bought REMAIN at their Source/Production location, and return there if the train is demobilized or the Warehouses stops storing them.

[EMAPhil]

In "Flying Scotsman" I delivered wood as a way of getting the population up in York to hit the task.
After a while I had met demand in York but also had demand elsewhere. Stupidly put in a warehouse. Suddenly noticed York stopped growing and had zero stock or supply of wood!
Checked warehouse and trains. Every little bit was going everywhere but York.
Killed the Warehouse item and all was well again! Likewise Corn!

[jhughes]

Originally posted by Mudfog:

If the warehouse is taking all the goods and none are going to the city, try delivering the goods to two stations in the city, with one station not having a warehouse attached. See if that works. Could be a workaround until it is "fixed" again.

Or delivering more goods to that station.

As Dray Prescot tried to tell the OP .. every item put on a train has a location assigned to it when it gets on the train in the remote station. If something got on the train .. it has a location that your network touches.

They did change the calculations, and IMHO for the better.

Before, you had to totally meet the city that had the warehouse's requirements to get any items to flow to any other city through that warehouse. Then once you got that city full, the warehouse would get items .. but it would start only to the next closest city. Once all that city had demand met, then you could start hauling items to another city via that warehouse. If you had a city a bit further away, you had to meet every other city's demand before even 1 item went to the furthest city.

That is no longer the case. Now the warehouse is not second fiddle and further cities no longer require every demand be met. Now, cities get demand met in a more random way. This means you don't need to meet all the demand in every city in an overflow fashion to get items to the furthest city. Now, the city that gets left out is the host city .. but before and now, the solution to the problem is to meet the demand connected to the warehouse. the symptoms have just changed.

However, you still do need to meet all the demand that a warehouse connects to .. including the city the warehouse is built in. If you have 80 items piled up in the warehouse waiting to be delivered, then you do not have enough capacity coming out of that warehouse and going to the other cities .. you need more capacity to get items out of that warehouse and on the way to other locations. There is a DEMAND for every item in that warehouse, nothing got put there that is not needed in your network. You need to balance the supply and demand for the warehouse.

If you still do not have items being delivered to the host city .. then you also do not have enough items being delivered to the warehouse. You have created more demand in your system (connected to that warehouse) than you have supply coming into the warehouse. That means that some city is going to get left out of the loop until you increase supply in and items going out of the warehouse.

If you click on the i in the top left of the screen and then select 'Train Usage Overlay', then if you zoom out, you will see trains in Red that are in lines that could carry more supplies. Add more capacity (ie, trains) to those lines and you will clear out the items stacking up in your warehouse.

Add more items coming in and you will deliver items to the city. You can also add a second station to the city, but that is not required. At least not for me.

You just need to balance demand in and demand out of the warehouse.

[jhughes]

Originally posted by ЯeÐ ĄnimaŁ ШaЯ:

I can confirm this ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ annoying bug and I somehow finished the entire campaign but I noticed this during it multiple times. Now on one scenario it really makes me want to quit and w8 for a patch. I had a case where I unset the resource in the warehouse and suddenly the city showed them up previously showing 0. Then another case where I just basically threw all away by unsuspecting the resource. Its really annoying with the 6 resource restriction in the first place, not this. This makes warehouses in cities basically unusable.

Warehouses are perfectly usable, watch the 4 videos in this mission (there are 4 videos in Flagler's Follies now, probably will be 6 when he finishes). This entire mission was started after the update landed:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQiS-O9RW_g

You just need more supply into the warehouse. You also do not need to share items made in a city in the warehouses. Instead build 3 or 4 city clusters. In warehouses share raw items that are needed by all cities to grow. You only need them in the closest city. Then use city to city freight lines that will carry both raw items from the warehouses and created items inside the cities to every other city.

If you have a 4-city cluster of say Beer, Meat, Cloth, and Planks as the first item in each city. You can add grain, sugar, lumber, corn (and later milk, veg, fruit) to warehouses that are closest to each raw resource. You have 24 (4x6) open warehouse slots and you only need to share a total of 7 items in those slots .. the ones closest to the raw resource.

Then you run freight lines between each city and every other city.

So if the cities are A, B, C, D .. you would have these freight lines:

A>B, A>C, A>D, B>C, B>D, C>D

So you have cattle going to meat (no need to share either of those in a warehouse), grain going to Beer (and grain shared in that beer warehouse), wool going to cloth (no need to share either), Lumber going to planks (and lumber shared in that warehouse).

Then you bring in each of the other raw items into the closest of the 4 warehouses and share them (sugar, corn, milk, vegetables, fruit). Right now, you have a 4-city cluster that each city will grow to 65K at 100% growth rate.

As each of the cities hit 40 K, where you can put in a new factory .. put Dairy in the city where you sent milk initially, put clothes in the city where you have cloth, put Alcohol in the city where you sent either sugar or fruit, put furniture in the city where you initially had planks.

Go find salt and put it into the closest warehouse in that 4-city cluster. You now have the means to grow to 75K in each city at 100% growth rate. You only have used 8 total slots of warehouse space.

At this point, you probably need to add a second train to each of the 6 city to city lines. Now you need to start thinking about '3rd tier' items in those cities. That will happen at 90K population in each, which you can now easily get to in each city.

You are going to need paper (best spot would be where you have planks and furniture now.), you will need steel (pick a city close to coal and iron), tools (pick a different city in the cluster), and then one other item (I would pick either ceramics or Chemicals).

Go find cement and put it in the closest warehouse in the cluster and share it. That is your 9th shared spot out of 24 spots in the warehouses. Now each of those 4 cities can grow at 100% rate to 95K .. they can all take a university.

While you are building those cities, you should pick 4 more cities and do the same thing. Sometimes you will need to slightly modify the clusters to contain things like newspaper, etc. for tasks. You can also do a 5 city cluster and that would add in 3 more potential factories for growth so maybe Canned Food, Toys, (Candy or newspapers).

In the 5 city cluster, you have 30 total spots if you only have 1 warehouse in each city .. and you have only used 10 spots .. you did not need to put anything made in any city into a warehouse spot (all the cities have a city to city line to each other city, no need to share items made in any city).

If you created two independent 5-city clusters, in the second one instead of the 90 K tier being canned food, toys and candy .. that one can have newspapers, fuel and cars. In teh 5th city of the cluster initally you would buy, tear down and replace the initial business in the city with a lower-level item like Dairy or Liquor .. just like you did to get Planks in the 4th city of each cluster)

You still only used 10 warehouse spots in each cluster. So now you can set up an export warehouse that contains cars, fuel, newspapers in group one and candy, toys, Canned Goods in group two .. and you can send freight trains into those warehouses.

You now have all items in 10 cities .. you used a total of 13 spots (out of 30 total) in each cluster.. so 26/60 for both. Every city can grow to the maximum level.

You will need bypass lines around some warehouses and you will need to monitor traffic and maybe add some more stations to be able to get all the trains into each station, etc.

All the while, I use completely sperate stations and lines for passenger and mail traffic.

Start a sandbox game with no money .. pick two 5-city cluster candidates and set things up and figure out the game mechanics for warehouses, figure out how the "Train Demand Overlay" works (i at the top left of the screen. Figure out how to use bypasses around cities for freight, etc. Figure out how to grow those 10 cities all to over 150K population.

Once you get all the things figured out, you can use it in any scenario and/or campaign mission.

[Sigismund]

Originally posted by jhughes:

Now the warehouse is not second fiddle and further cities no longer require every demand be met. Now, cities get demand met in a more random way. This means you don't need to meet all the demand in every city in an overflow fashion to get items to the furthest city. Now, the city that gets left out is the host city .. but before and now, the solution to the problem is to meet the demand connected to the warehouse. the symptoms have just changed.

Yep. This has been my experience. I don't think it's a bug. "The city that gets left out is the host city". It seems to push the resources randomly down the line before it fills up the host (warehouse) city. In my tests, this is exactly what happened. Just going to take a little getting used to, and it helps to know the way it works. Thanks jhughes!

[jhughes]

Originally posted by Dray Prescot:

You should not be using Warehouses to deliver Wood or any of the 1st 5 Consumer Goods (Grain, Corn, Wood, Beer, and Meat) to Cities, there is enough demand to just deliver those Goods directly from Source to Destination with dedicated Trains, that just have 2 or 3 stops on their short Routes.

Those of us that never use Warehouses, or rarely use them, never see these problems with Goods locked up "In Transit" and not being delivered and not being picked up.

All Warehouses are doing for you is introducing delays into your delivery networks that are already over stressed.

Remember that RE 2 Warehouses do NOT work like RE 1 Warehouses, they do not store goods that can be shared with a nearby City without using a train. They are NOT stockpiles of goods that no one has bought. They are merely a location where loaded Rail Cars are waiting to be transferred from one Train to another Train in order to reach an already determined destination, i.e. someone has already ordered them. They are Switching Yards.

Any goods that have not been bought REMAIN at their Source/Production location, and return there if the train is demobilized or the Warehouses stops storing them.

I actually don't agree with your method (and you don't agree with mine :)) but that is the thing about this game. There are many ways to play. I feel like ONLY putting raw materials, including the low level ones, is the way to use warehouses properly. And I can very easily grow all cities in my cluster to University status very quickly. The key is matching supply with demand. You can certainly do that also without warehouses. But I choose to do it with warehouses.

[chaney]

What is the *advantage* of using a warehouse instead of direct delivery from the sources?

One case that makes sense is when a single train can deliver more than one type of goods at a time - but that is only really an advantage with relatively low demand rates. Do the math - trains needed, miles per good delivered, etc. to see if what SEEMS good is really good. Multi-stop routes to deliver goods from rural sources are rarely sensible unless demand is quite low.

There may also be a case where trains can carry things both directions, while a rural direct to city route will always run empty on the way back. Rural1-City1-City2-Rural2 in a straight line may be an example here - eliminating the empty run between the two Cities at the cost of extra stopping time. If the balance is fairly even on demands, the RE2 Warehouse can make sense there.

Organizing flow in the player's mind/vision is another.

I guess direct delivery also pushes for bypassing cities, which I don't consider much of an issue in most cases.

Is there some important value I'm missing of RE2 warehouses?

Regarding the need to hit capacity for goods being forwarded before supplying the local demand, would setting the warehouse capacity down make that easier to achieve? If so, ramp up capacity as desired to regulate things. Micro, yes.

[Lateralus]

Originally posted by chaney:

What is the *advantage* of using a warehouse instead of direct delivery from the sources?

One case that makes sense is when a single train can deliver more than one type of goods at a time - but that is only really an advantage with relatively low demand rates. Do the math - trains needed, miles per good delivered, etc. to see if what SEEMS good is really good. Multi-stop routes to deliver goods from rural sources are rarely sensible unless demand is quite low.

There may also be a case where trains can carry things both directions, while a rural direct to city route will always run empty on the way back. Rural1-City1-City2-Rural2 in a straight line may be an example here - eliminating the empty run between the two Cities at the cost of extra stopping time. If the balance is fairly even on demands, the RE2 Warehouse can make sense there.

Organizing flow in the player's mind/vision is another.

I guess direct delivery also pushes for bypassing cities, which I don't consider much of an issue in most cases.

Is there some important value I'm missing of RE2 warehouses?

Regarding the need to hit capacity for goods being forwarded before supplying the local demand, would setting the warehouse capacity down make that easier to achieve? If so, ramp up capacity as desired to regulate things. Micro, yes.

You’ve almost answered the question for yourself here. They make sense at low city demand to grow say three cities up to about 100k each but then they stop making sense at some point above that depending on how the network is set up. After that it’s mostly better to just deliver the higher demand goods directly on separate lines.

I’ve decided warehouses are a medium to advanced subject and that beginners would be better to avoid them until they learn the basics first.

[jeffrey.allen]

Originally posted by jhughes:

... Now, cities get demand met in a more random way.

I doubt that it's random, but it's not obvious to me why they changed it to something and didn't explain the new "feature." Yes, yes, I know we're supposed to set up sandboxes and figure it out, over and over every time a new update comes out, but is THAT the actual game?

[Fanatic]

i can confirm it has changed with the Patch.
Before the city got supplied first and anything extra got into the warehouse.
Now the city with warehouse gets the good as latest after all other with the warehouse connected citys are satisfyed
i also saw some trains moving goods from A to B and back

It makes much more sense that the farthest target gets the ressources as last, you can always skip the multi stop chain with an aditional line to the last target if you dont want to wait till every stop is filled up. But you cant directly supply a city with a warehouse anymore.
Now it makes warehouses in citys not really usable anymore, cuz it hinders the city from effectively growing

[Fanatic]

Originally posted by chaney:

What is the *advantage* of using a warehouse instead of direct delivery from the sources?

One case that makes sense is when a single train can deliver more than one type of goods at a time - but that is only really an advantage with relatively low demand rates. Do the math - trains needed, miles per good delivered, etc. to see if what SEEMS good is really good. Multi-stop routes to deliver goods from rural sources are rarely sensible unless demand is quite low.


Regarding the need to hit capacity for goods being forwarded before supplying the local demand, would setting the warehouse capacity down make that easier to achieve? If so, ramp up capacity as desired to regulate things. Micro, yes.

im used to those big multiple stop routes all the time, so far it didnt feel inefficient

[jhughes]

Originally posted by chaney:

What is the *advantage* of using a warehouse instead of direct delivery from the sources?

One case that makes sense is when a single train can deliver more than one type of goods at a time - but that is only really an advantage with relatively low demand rates. Do the math - trains needed, miles per good delivered, etc. to see if what SEEMS good is really good. Multi-stop routes to deliver goods from rural sources are rarely sensible unless demand is quite low.

There may also be a case where trains can carry things both directions, while a rural direct to city route will always run empty on the way back. Rural1-City1-City2-Rural2 in a straight line may be an example here - eliminating the empty run between the two Cities at the cost of extra stopping time. If the balance is fairly even on demands, the RE2 Warehouse can make sense there.

Organizing flow in the player's mind/vision is another.

I guess direct delivery also pushes for bypassing cities, which I don't consider much of an issue in most cases.

Is there some important value I'm missing of RE2 warehouses?

Regarding the need to hit capacity for goods being forwarded before supplying the local demand, would setting the warehouse capacity down make that easier to achieve? If so, ramp up capacity as desired to regulate things. Micro, yes.

Warehouses do not have capacities in RE2. Items in rural stations do not load on a train unless they already have a destination. Warehouses are just a place you can queue and transfer things that already have a destination. If you look on a train and mouse over an item.. It tells you where thst item is going. Also, in RE2 a warehouse is not a seperate building.. It is an add on to an existing train Station. It is just a queue at a station to transfer to another train.

The thing about RE2 is it takes fewer trains to meet demand. So if you want to use direct trains you can.. But it would likely be a raw to A, raw to B, raw to C scenario rather than 3 seperate trains. But since it does take so few trains to meet demand, and since you need city to city lines anyway to transfer items made in city factories to each other, it doesn't make sense to increase traffic into your cities to direct deliver also.

What I mean is.. You are already running grain into city A and you already have a line running from City A to City B. It doesn't make sense to then send another train into City B to deliver grain there. It increases traffic into the city unnecessarily. The freight train from city A to City B can carry beer and grain and meet demand. No need for the extra traffic. This is especially true in the early game.

In the Scenarios / Campaigns, there is no need to grow many cities above 100K population. That is when you can add a University. There are a couple items that need a little higher population. But 125K max will meet all but one of the tasks in all the missions.

You can meet that goal to grow cities to 125K easily with 3, 4, or 5 city clusters and warehouses and use much fewer trains. But if you are going for much larger cities than that, city traffic in warehouses can become problematic.

[Reiver67]

I wonder if priority of goods in a warehouse outside of a city prioritise alphabetically - warehouse near Pittsburgh - wood supply as follows:
Cleveland 99%
Grand Rapids 99%
Parkersburg 86%
Pittsburgh 0%
Toledo 0%

[Freeky]

Hi everyone,

Why does a city not consume the goods at the warehouse?

• The moment a good leaves a rural station, it is already determined where it will be delivered. The destination of the goods is not changed and is valid only for a certain city. Example: you have a wheat source and 4 cities with demand, while city A has a warehouse. 2 wagons of wheat are allocated to each city and delivered to city A. The 2 units of wheat are consumed by city A, while the 2 for each other city remain in the warehouse waiting for a train to pick them up. Since this can take some time, waiting for transport and the distance is longer, this can lead to situations that look like a full warehouse, while city A has none left. In this case, they already have their destinations set and cannot be used in city A, and any new shipment for city A will be consumed very quickly / immediately. In this case, you will need to increase production because the city will still get its share of the goods, but there is less supply than needed.
  
  
• If you still think that your warehouse is working differently and you encounter a bug with the warehouses, please send your savegame to [e-mail].

Cheers