No option to have NO signals?

[captainpatch]

Well I've looked through all the available options for Campaign, Scenarios, and Sandbox. None of them have the RE option for leaving out signals entirely, allowing trains to pass each other on a single piece of track. And just before pounces with some form of "What? Are you crazy? What kind of RR game would it be without signals?!" let me say this.

A LOT of this game is abstracted. The size of the train sprite on the map, would, if it was to scale, mean the train would be 20+ miles long and nearly as massive as a mountain. For a locomotive and 8 cars. For the cost of the track, the track line could have many, many sidings, and a comprehensive network of automatic signals. After the introduction of the telegraph, train collisions dropped off dramatically. With the introduction of automatic signals, collisions dropped off to exceedingly rare. So _why_ are signals even a necessary element of gameplay? Just assume that they're there and put your attention to other things.

Besides, RR signals really didn't start to get used until after 1851 along with the telegraph and Morse code. So they really should NOT be available at the beginning of the campaign.

All I'm really interested in the game is laying out an efficient rail network that moves goods and passengers and mail around profitably. I really don't mind going head-to-head with three AI competitors that aren't at all reluctant to use sabotage against their competitors. But spending hours on end getting a signaled network just so is more bother than whatever enjoyment I would get out of the game. Other players may want that kind of minutiae and I say, "More power to you!" Different strokes for different folks.

So, this far in, I'm thinking I shouldn't have been so hasty and sprang for the Deluxe Edition. I was really expecting more of Railway Empire with improved graphics, more cities on bigger maps, more locomotives, etc. But it looks like I'll just have to keep playing RE for the kind of gameplay that _I_ want.

[power man]

signals are there not just because of gameplay, it would be unrealistic to not have them at all as they're an essential part of railway operation

[captainpatch]

TODAY they're essential. And almost entirely automatic; something a Manager wouldn't even have to think about. And as for "realism", as I pointed out, they didn't even start to appear until about 1851. So all those games that start in 1830 with signaling built in are pointedly UNrealistic.

I actually expected that the first response would be, "If you don't want to mess with signals, just activate Automatic Signals!" To which I reply, "If they're entirely automatic, why are they even necessary for gameplay?" Just another abstraction.

[coenvijge]

Gaming Minds stated that, if there is enough demand, they would consider to put the option to place the signals manually back in the game. They left it out because they expect that, seen the upscaling of the game, players prefer to let the game place the signals.

[Raphx]

y have make a guide for signal

[Thoddy]

Mimimi.

[captainpatch]

Originally posted by coenvijge:

Gaming Minds stated that, if there is enough demand, they would consider to put the option to place the signals manually back in the game. They left it out because they expect that, seen the upscaling of the game, players prefer to let the game place the signals.
:loco:

Even if they did add that feature, it would still be ALL games _require_ signaling, either manual or automatic. I guess players like me -- IF there are any others like me in the several tens/hundreds of thousands of players - that don't want signaling at all are too small of a market niche for them to bother with.

[How hard can it be? The feature was present in RE1. All that was needed was to scroll once to the right in Options. Flip a switch, it's off. Let the players at least have the option and let them decide for themselves. Making it available takes _nothing_ away from realists.]

[Malice]

Signals are needed for proper game play. If you played any other game you know that your trains need to wait for others to get off the track. Even if you wait 20 years to use them you will still need them. I like that RE1 let them be used where and how we needed. This auto-signal is a pain and is making multiple lane stations hard to deal with. I have a signal just outside of a 4 lane station. I have a gridiron just after that signal. Trains don't make a choice to go or stop at the gridiron. They stop at the signal with only one train at the station.

[jsb]

Originally posted by coenvijge:

Gaming Minds stated that, if there is enough demand, they would consider to put the option to place the signals manually back in the game. They left it out because they expect that, seen the upscaling of the game, players prefer to let the game place the signals.
:loco:

Didn't know this.
I haven't had a signal problem myself but from other posts it seems that manual placement would solve some game problems that basically -- you can't forsee every possibility and code for it.

[jsb]

Running into a problem; since gridirons signal themselves I can't always just replace them with crossovers.
IF I could place signals the problem I think would be solved. Don't know what else gridirons do re traffic paths.

[thorpemark]

Why don't you build "passing lanes".. side tracks. I did it early in the first campaign scenario instead of a full double track.. seemed to work well... then again, I didn't really check it that carefully as everything seemed to work.. no warnings about stopped trains, etc. In RE1 I recall seeing situations were 2 trains faced eacother on a single track because I (or the game) messed up the signalling.

I kinda miss the individual signals.. but then again, I don't miss the headaches.

[legoholic]

OP you're not the only one who wants the option from RE1 to remove the need for signals at all be added into the game.

To the people basically telling the OP to "Get good" - go away. Its a game and some people want differing levels of realism. Some want more arcade and some want more simulation.

Its truly baffling that with the option to remove signals in RE1 and that manual signal setup was the norm in RE1, that RE2 would remove both of those in favour of auto signals only...

RE2 should have had all three options; No signals, auto signals, and manual signals.

[captainpatch]

Heartily agree! Give the players more options and let _them_ decide just how complex they want their gameplay to be.

Originally posted by thorpemark:

Why don't you build "passing lanes".. side tracks. I did it early in the first campaign scenario instead of a full double track.. seemed to work well...

I started the first campaign mission and that's precisely what I did: single track all the way and sidetracks every 1/4 of the stretch between destinations. But then I noticed "opposing" trains were never anywhere on the route at the same time; the program wasn't using the sidetracks at all. It was waiting for one train to clear out before the other was allowed in.

I looked deeper into Tips and Hints and discovered that track, sidetracks in particular, had to have the traffic _direction_ defined. A sidetrack can only be used by traffic going ONE direction. And apparently mainlines have to be assigned a direction, and you need a parallel line going in the other direction if you want simultaneous two-way traffic. (Which means, I'm guessing, is that sidetracks are meant for ONLY slower trains to get out of the way of faster trains coming up from behind.)

[Werecat101]

Originally posted by captainpatch:

Heartily agree! Give the players more options and let _them_ decide just how complex they want their gameplay to be.

Originally posted by thorpemark:

Why don't you build "passing lanes".. side tracks. I did it early in the first campaign scenario instead of a full double track.. seemed to work well...

I started the first campaign mission and that's precisely what I did: single track all the way and sidetracks every 1/4 of the stretch between destinations. But then I noticed "opposing" trains were never anywhere on the route at the same time; the program wasn't using the sidetracks at all. It was waiting for one train to clear out before the other was allowed in.

I looked deeper into Tips and Hints and discovered that track, sidetracks in particular, had to have the traffic _direction_ defined. A sidetrack can only be used by traffic going ONE direction. And apparently mainlines have to be assigned a direction, and you need a parallel line going in the other direction if you want simultaneous two-way traffic. (Which means, I'm guessing, is that sidetracks are meant for ONLY slower trains to get out of the way of faster trains coming up from behind.)

I take it by your topic header you would like to have simulated a token system, rather than the much later developed signal systems, I have worked on real railways and can see your point, personally I was hoping that RE2 would add more real railway methods from around the world and history and fix the things they did wrong in RE.

I mean if you want historical accuracy the semaphore arm signal didn't exist before 1842. which was 16 years after the first passenger railway existed in England.

[captainpatch]

And before the semaphore arm signals, RR employees had to take a lantern and rag to wave around to let oncoming trains know the tracks were blocked up ahead.

My grandfather was a major stockholder for the American operations of the Canadian Pacific Railway. (Specifically, the Minneapolis, St. Paul and Sault Ste. Marie Railroad.) It was absorbed by the Americanized Soo Line in 1949. Grandpa died before I was born, but learning some of his biography spurred my interest in RR history.

You're right about how most -- all? -- RR games get it wrong in many ways. The devs are more interested in workable, simplified game mechanics rather than trying to get closer to Reality. Like 8-car consists from the very beginning in 1830? Ludicrous. And then NEVER exceeding 8 cars all the way through to 1930 -- ridiculous! It is even less understandable when you look back at the FIRST RR empire game, Railroad Tycoon, released in 1990 for DOS with less than 1 Mb of any kind of memory, where trains could have consists (for later, more powerful locomotives) stretching out up to 28 cars. Furthermore, there were _22_ distinctly different cars to serve a wide variety of purposes. And A LOT of the game manual was actually quite educational.

I can understand how many players can be enamored by RE2, because for most of them, their exposure to RR games is limited to what they were exposed to just in the last 10 years. But having NEVER played RRT, they really don't know how shortchanged they have been.

[Werecat101]

I just wish games manufacturers would decide which they want a railway building game or a corporate railway game,