Why do SMGs do more damage than rifles?

[Oedipus's Stepdad]

Is this intentional?

[prawns]

Because it’s not about how long the round is, it’s about how thick it is…

Girth>length

[windebieste]

Game rules are not the same as real world rules. lol.

[redcoatguner]

Yeah this game has a weapons balance problem if you look at some of the spreadsheets you'll find out that some pistols out damage even some mid game rifles, the PTM practically is your go to all the way up to late game and by then you have the fully automatic shotgun the saiga as your main weapon from then on

[redcoatguner]

Originally posted by k33th:

Because its videogame rules, and because rifles are more versatile.

they are inferior to SMG's, rifles are not more versatile So what they have a shotgun attachment or grenade launcher attachment they cost more to repair, their spread is horrendous they're heavy even with modifications that reduce weight, SMGS are just superior overall

[Othobrithol]

SMGs are better for close range only. Rifles rule the ranged battle and half the reason people complain of repair costs is because they are engaging in close range firefights when they don't have to.

Now early on, when you don't own the scopes, I think SMGs are better. Every run of every STALKER title for me has started with a viper, fully upgraded in the games that had upgrades. And I often carry one so I can use the common ammo lying around on my way too and from a big mission to conserve the condition of my heavier weapon.

But once you get the scopes ARs start to shine. It is always better to plink heads from behind cover, even in corridor fights. Outside you are at a huge disadvantage if your long range option is an SMG. Your bursts are going to go wild, while the AR's bursts will stay tighter.

[redcoatguner]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1L6jBHJtw8AZrJZmOiFekiS2YVudHS3rQVGQN-oOaNMk/edit?gid=2000689774#gid=2000689774

this spreadsheet details all weapons stats in the game rifles are inherently inferior to SMG's looking at the efficiency stat alone can tell you so much very few rifles outperform SMG'S and those that do have a massive caveat like clusterf**k with its trash durability

[SHOKKERZ91]

The spreadsheet doesn't tell the whole story. And efficiency is a very weierd stat in it aswell. Take the Boomstick and TOZ, two extremly bad weapons, even in the state of the game where they meant to be used, have very high efficiency stats. Both are trash and should be avoided at all costs.

The difference between rifles and SMG's are that rifles have more range before the damage falls of. SMG's are meant to be used in close quarters, and most fights are. Maybe thats why it seems to be why SMG's are considered "better". In more open areas, they start to crumble very fast and rifles begin to shine more because of better range and easier use thanks to optics like 4x scopes.

SMG's and rifles are pretty much on equal footing when put in they're respective roles.

[HiggsLP]

Try to track Bloodsucker with rifle sprinting past u? Hard, take hipfire smg/shotty.
Try to hit anything with SMG so that they will go fast, very hard.
I didnt take a look on that spreadsheet but the repair cost is not a problem. Problem is availability/weight/cost of ammo.
Yes u could take Exo down with Bucket, it is very good in spread/recoil wise, but ud have to hit 1-2mags at minimum with it on exo. WhileGP36 with burst/4x scope takes , 2-3 bursts?
Kharod- 1 mag=2 exos with most avilable ammo ingame 5.45.

There are bad ARs also, but at u can always replace them with Lynx/Whip.

Btw AR weight is also not a problem- upgraded 1 RPK(the LMG) to 4.72Kg, thats less than most weapons in default config...

PS money isnt the issue for repairs if u collect artifacts on the way and bring couple of 100% suits for 25k(on ur balance not the listed value). Net 50k on Stalker mode runs are easy if u explore around...

[redcoatguner]

Originally posted by HiggsLP:

.
I didnt take a look on that spreadsheet

and there's the problem you didn't look

but I do agree about the availability weight and cost of ammo that's another factor that's making things worse

yes repairs are a problem the rifle is sometimes twice or three times more costly then a SMG with equivalent durability some SMGS even have better durability and exploring requires you to go into dangerous area getting attacked by NPCS mutants and exposure to anomalies all which damage your gear

you only need 6 rounds for the Kharod to kill an exo on veteran difficulty if you're aiming for headshots the bucket needs 8 you can find this on the spreadsheet where on the enemies tab goes into greater detail on damage calculation the bucket is several times more cheaper and efficient than the rifle more plentiful ammunition cheaper cost much greater controllability
but the Kharod is only truly viable rifle mid to end game despite its low damage I mean look at the spreadsheet it's across the board best base stats and fully upgraded is the best of them all despite its low damage and is the only rifle worth a damn in game and it's a mid game weapon
the Dnipro which is clearly supposed to replace it, is garbage in comparison barely controllable low rate of fire despite having way better damage and it's supposed to be end game weapon
but all of that is still outperformed by the SMG

and sniper rifles are outright Doo Doo trash they're not worth the cost the capacity is too low take too long to reload their recoil is horrendous and with the NPCS aggressive aiming just leaning around the corner for more than 0.3 seconds you're gonna get hit heavily and your aim is gonna go all over the place not worth it this same problem applies to rifles with scopes

of course once the patch comes out which the developers apparently doing balance changes on when he commented on my review many of these problems will go away and make much more sense

[Serpiko82]

In older games, assault rifles were THE best choice for a highly effective all-rounder weapon.

Currently in HoC, where arbitrary balance choices affect combat the most, they're still all-rounders, but mediocre at everything due to the damage nerf.

You can both spray at close range and snipe with them, but in either case you'd be better with a shotgun or a sniper rifle.

[HiggsLP]

Im gonna put it on test. If a group of monolith is agfroing out in the open, how many second would I survive with a Bucket
I just ran out of ammo on main weapons and had to switch to Bucket. And even though I used it only coiple of times for QBC it was broken.
Yes the repair cost on ur precious spreadsheet could be 2x cheaper but if u are being aggroed by team of Monolith Exos then i dont care much about the repair cost or spread but how to reliably get them down quickly.
And sniper/kharod melts them.
Bucket spread doesnt help of the recoil goes to sky while being shot Exo snipers.

All in all this spreadsheet is good statistic but as always real situation is totally something different.

[Serpiko82]

Originally posted by HiggsLP:

upgraded 1 RPK(the LMG) to 4.72Kg, thats less than most weapons in default config...

I've been SORELY disappointed by LMGs. Fully upgraded Glutton (unique one) WITH AP AMMO should be shredding stuff, instead it seems to punch no harder than any AR. Exosuits still tank several body hits, a Chimera soaks 150+ rounds before finally going down (I shot 200+, and I'm sure I landed at least 75%). All in all, the effectiveness/weight/cost ratio of LMG rounds is absolutely NOT worth it.

[Lucius Caesar]

I don't know if SMGS are better than rifles exactly.. you just need to look at the penetration stat. all early game weapons (apart from shotguns) have practically no penetration. The G36... sorry GP37 has ok penetration, so it takes a few headshots but you can reliably down exos. From there I moved on to the Vector (integral?) which has higher pen and absolutely wrecks exos. I then swapped to Kharod which has high pen and destroys Exos.

(all this with regular non AP ammo, so even more Exo melting with the AP ammo)

[TwinChops]

Originally posted by Lucius Caesar:

I don't know if SMGS are better than rifles exactly.. you just need to look at the penetration stat. all early game weapons (apart from shotguns) have practically no penetration. The G36... sorry GP37 has ok penetration, so it takes a few headshots but you can reliably down exos. From there I moved on to the Vector (integral?) which has higher pen and absolutely wrecks exos. I then swapped to Kharod which has high pen and destroys Exos.

(all this with regular non AP ammo, so even more Exo melting with the AP ammo)

Ngl, the Integral from the Deluxe version is prolly my favorite gun, only kharod and dnipro are better but that integral ist just a laser beam with a really high rate of fire and i like it.

But also i dont see a single reason to ever use any AK variants in the game, or VAL series. Both are really underhwelming, and as much as i want to use them, its the ammount of bullets that i need to kill something is whats drives me away from them.

[HiggsLP]

AKM from 1st NPC is the best AR/Sniper till mid game.
Also Spirit beams- did Malachite against exos solely with Spirit...