Why no AK47?

[ImTheHatMan]

I'm sure this has been asked and answered a thousand times. The AK47 is a staple of the region and SHOULD be the poster gun of the franchise.

[Undertaker]

Originally posted by TheAceOfSpodes:

Well at least you're confidently wrong.

"Kalashnikov himself stated..."I was in the hospital, and a soldier in the bed beside me asked: 'Why do our soldiers have only one rifle for two or three of our men when the Germans have automatics?' So I designed one. I was a soldier, and I created a machine gun for a soldier. It was called an Avtomat Kalashnikova, the automatic weapon of Kalashnikov—AK—and it carried the year of its first manufacture, 1947."

From the interview "For Patriotism and Profit: An interview with Mikhail Kalashnikov" by Robert Fisk, 22 April 2001.

It would be more weird if the USSR didn't call it the AK-47. Almost all weapon designations up until the end of the 40s were made of 3 parts. The type, the designer's name, and the year of introduction. Here are many examples.

PPsh-41: Pistolét-pulemyót Shpágina-41 (translates to Shpagin's machine-pistol-41) It was introduced in 1941.

PPS-42: Pistolet Pulemyot Sudayeva (the designer being Sudayev). Introduced in 1942.

SVT-40: Samozaryadnaya vintovka Tokareva, obrazets 1940 goda (Tokarev self-loading rifle, model of 1940). Introduced in 1940.

AVS-36: Avtomaticheskaya vintovka Simonova obraztsa 1936 goda (AVS-36) (Automatic rifle Simonov model 1936).

So the proper designation of the AK-47 is "Avtomat Kalashnikova", which translates to "Kalashnikov's automatic [rifle]", introduced in 1947.

This practice fell out of favor in the late 40s-early 50s as the USSR began to standardize and simplify military nomenclature, with the AK-47 being an example of this. Following this, you begin to see things such as the Makarov, or SVD, where the designations became a single word, or a short acronym to describe its function.

Aw ♥♥♥♥, here we go again...
Okay, let's play your game.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalashnikov_rifle

>They are officially known in Russian as avtomat Kalashnikova (Russian: автомат Калашникова, lit. 'Kalashnikov's Automatic Gun')

Do you see any numbers here? I don't.

>It would be more weird if the USSR didn't call it the AK-47
...and nevertheless, they did it, officially. Yes, sometimes, unofficially, it was refered to as "of pattern 1947", including by Kalashnikov himself, but I guess that was mainly to distinguish it from previous pattern, AK46. Officially, it was designated as simply AK, end of story.

The AK was introduced basically as a part of a weapon complex, along with an SKS carabine and an RPD machine gun. They also did not recieve any numbers in their official designations, although sometimes they are colloquially referred to as SKS-45 and RPD-44. So it's about that time that Soviet official designations dropped the year part.

[TheAceOfSpodes]

Originally posted by Undertaker:

Originally posted by TheAceOfSpodes:

Well at least you're confidently wrong.

"Kalashnikov himself stated..."I was in the hospital, and a soldier in the bed beside me asked: 'Why do our soldiers have only one rifle for two or three of our men when the Germans have automatics?' So I designed one. I was a soldier, and I created a machine gun for a soldier. It was called an Avtomat Kalashnikova, the automatic weapon of Kalashnikov—AK—and it carried the year of its first manufacture, 1947."

From the interview "For Patriotism and Profit: An interview with Mikhail Kalashnikov" by Robert Fisk, 22 April 2001.

It would be more weird if the USSR didn't call it the AK-47. Almost all weapon designations up until the end of the 40s were made of 3 parts. The type, the designer's name, and the year of introduction. Here are many examples.

PPsh-41: Pistolét-pulemyót Shpágina-41 (translates to Shpagin's machine-pistol-41) It was introduced in 1941.

PPS-42: Pistolet Pulemyot Sudayeva (the designer being Sudayev). Introduced in 1942.

SVT-40: Samozaryadnaya vintovka Tokareva, obrazets 1940 goda (Tokarev self-loading rifle, model of 1940). Introduced in 1940.

AVS-36: Avtomaticheskaya vintovka Simonova obraztsa 1936 goda (AVS-36) (Automatic rifle Simonov model 1936).

So the proper designation of the AK-47 is "Avtomat Kalashnikova", which translates to "Kalashnikov's automatic [rifle]", introduced in 1947.

This practice fell out of favor in the late 40s-early 50s as the USSR began to standardize and simplify military nomenclature, with the AK-47 being an example of this. Following this, you begin to see things such as the Makarov, or SVD, where the designations became a single word, or a short acronym to describe its function.

Aw ♥♥♥♥, here we go again...
Okay, let's play your game.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalashnikov_rifle

>They are officially known in Russian as avtomat Kalashnikova (Russian: автомат Калашникова, lit. 'Kalashnikov's Automatic Gun')

Do you see any numbers here? I don't.

>It would be more weird if the USSR didn't call it the AK-47
...and nevertheless, they did it, officially. Yes, sometimes, unofficially, it was refered to as "of pattern 1947", including by Kalashnikov himself, but I guess that was mainly to distinguish it from previous pattern, AK46. Officially, it was designated as simply AK, end of story.

The AK was introduced basically as a part of a weapon complex, along with an SKS carabine and an RPD machine gun. They also did not recieve any numbers in their official designations, although sometimes they are colloquially referred to as SKS-45 and RPD-44. So it's about that time that Soviet official designations dropped the year part.

Bud you're not arguing with me, you're arguing with Mikhail Kalashnikov himself. And I find the man who actually made the gun to be far more persuasive.

[Undertaker]

Yup, that's a reading comprehension issue again.

>you're arguing with Mikhail Kalashnikov
And you're arguing with the Council of Ministers of the USSR, who actually adopted the gun into service and labeled it with its official designation

[Nacalal]

It's probably a matter of "there's already 2 AKs, do we really need a 3rd?" being the reason it's not in the game, even from a gameplay standpoint it'd be pretty similar to the 74m with increased recoil and damage.
I'd love to see some sort of AKM in game, and it'd be a good excuse for more vendors to carry x39 ammo, but I can also see why it may have been passed up on.

[Coolverine]

All of the guns in the game are fictionalized but based on real ones, as far as I can tell.

[Dracon]

Originally posted by 7Beans:

Originally posted by Undertaker:

AKs (not AK47! There is no such rifle as AK47, only AK) were phased out before the USSR collapsed, lmao. Them Stalkers could possibly use AKMs, not definitely not AKs.

..... The AK47 was developed in 1947. The AKM was developed in 1960. Different receiver, different stock. AKM is literally just a modernized AK47. Its crazy how you can be this wrong in the age of the internet.

Just casually browse youtube or God forbid that Ticktok garbage
The amount of people just spitting blatantly wrong information is disgusting
Even worse the amount of people that believe it

[fox]

Originally posted by Undertaker:

Yup, that's a reading comprehension issue again.

>you're arguing with Mikhail Kalashnikov
And you're arguing with the Council of Ministers of the USSR, who actually adopted the gun into service and labeled it with its official designation

Excuse me sir, you're arguing with a certified firearms expert.

[TheAceOfSpodes]

Originally posted by Undertaker:

Yup, that's a reading comprehension issue again.

>you're arguing with Mikhail Kalashnikov
And you're arguing with the Council of Ministers of the USSR, who actually adopted the gun into service and labeled it with its official designation

Oh, there's the problem, you're confused.

The AK-47. Mikhail Kalashnikov's rifle. It began life in 1943 as a lightweight machine gun. By 1944, it had been reworked as a carbine. These models were known as the AK-1, and AK-2. AK-1 had a milled receiver, AK-2 had a stamped receiver. In 1946 the design was further refined to produce the AK-46, giving it many features of the StG 44. In 1947, the first of the AK-47s were produced and distributed to Russian army units for field testing. This mass production and adoption ran until 1949, when the USSR formally adopted the AK-47, and here's the real important part, RENAMED the weapon to "Avtomat Kalashnikova", or AK.

So there you go, there's the ENTIRE nomenclature and history behind the AK.

You're trying to scream "THE SKY IS GREEN" at the top of your lungs, but that doesn't make you right. You can't just retcon the AK-47 out of existence because some politician later decides to rename it.

I'll provide you with a list of notable figures who say you're wrong:

Mikhail Kalashnikov - Designer of the famed AK-47
Eugene Stoner - Designer of the famed AR-15
Jonathan Ferguson - Researcher/author
Ian McCollum - Researcher/author
Max Popenker - Researcher/author (from Russia, and served in the Russian military)
The researchers at The Encyclopedia Brittanica
Brandon Herrera - Gunsmith and youtuber.

You're staring at a mountain of evidence and well-respected researchers, enthusiasts, and the DESIGNER OF THE GUN, and saying "No I'm right".

[Buck D. Bumble (Sero)]

What would make the most since is having an "AK-47" Legendary weapon that was from a former military official / war hero turned stalker and over time used by countless others over the years and passed down being upkept with original parts from an original depot abandoned and forgotten decades ago (there are plenty of closed off areas to build upon in S2's zone) with a nice sidequest into it, etc etc. Not just having stockpiles of weapons made specifically in a couple years around 1947.

You can listen to the tinkerers dialogues in towns, people bring them all sorts of things to fix / create / mend / break. Can't imagine what is actually left after all those years.

This is what modding is for, make your own backstory for the inclusion of the item, or just simply add it. Everyone is going to be pretty taken aback when modding kicks off once the kit is out.

[franzmauser]

Originally posted by 7Beans:

Originally posted by RITALIN:

The Original Milled AK47s are quite rare. (The Stamped ones are even more rare!)
Even in Former Soviet Nations.
They where not produced on HUGE numbers. And the as they where phased out, they where either destroyed or sold to 3rd world countries.
What we Call the "AK47 is actually a modernization of the original design referred to as AKM. This are chambered in 7,62x39mm .

These are not to be confused with the AK74s, chambered in 5,45x39mm.
The AK74 has replaced the AKM in most (if not all) former Warsaw Pact countries.
You will only find AKMs in very backwater places, like North Korea.
Or Honour Guards. (as serimonial weapons)

Ps. Due to the lack of technical capabilities. North Korean AKMs are Bigger and chubbier than the rest. Combo that with the fact North Korean Soldiers are malnourished and you get some very funny pictures hahahha

Okay first thank you for an actual answer instead of all these other braindeads. All that makes sense and from my understanding the AK74 is the modern version being mass produced. The only part i kinda disagree with is the 762 AKM not being mass produced. I don't doubt its only service use is backwater countries but i have a hard time believing one couldn't be found in Chernobyl. The phasing out of the AKM only happened a decade before the Chernobyl disaster so i don't think its unreasonable to expect a decent amount to still remain.

AKM's in couple versions were mass produced in Poland, Czechoslovakia and few other countries which have license for production and creating their own variant's. Czechoslovakian and Polish version's was one of the best and they are still used by many militaries, civilian's and criminal's. Of course they are 7,62x39mm version's.

[rekt0ro]

Originally posted by Undertaker:

AKs (not AK47! There is no such rifle as AK47, only AK) were phased out before the USSR collapsed, lmao. Them Stalkers could possibly use AKMs, not definitely not AKs.

Mr. Kalashnikov sends his regards.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-47

[dgresevfan]

Originally posted by Chaos:

Why tho?
AK74 is just AK47 but modern anyway.

Different calibre isn't it? The AK47 fires bigger bullets. The AKM is the AK47 but modern.

[BlackAlpha]

Originally posted by TheAceOfSpodes:

You're staring at a mountain of evidence and well-respected researchers, enthusiasts, and the DESIGNER OF THE GUN, and saying "No I'm right".

According to the English Wikipedia article it went like:
- AK-46: Prototype
- AK-47 Type 1: Prototype used by military for a while > Adopted into military service with the name "AK"
- AK Type 2/3/4: Later versions of the AK-47; they used different official names, like "Lightweight AK" and such
- AKM: Even later version, most common 7.62 AK

According to the Russian Wikipedia article, I belief Russia calls it a bit differently. Their list goes like:
- AK-46
- AK-47
- AK Type 1/2/3
- AKM

(Note: Below I will use the name "AK-47 pattern" to refer to all the AK-47/AK Type 1/2/3/4 as a family)

The names get pretty confusing. Its quite a mess, as often is in military organizations.

But I suppose the AK-47 Type 1 would be pretty rare because most AK-47 pattern rifles were of the Type 2/3/4. The Type 2/3/4 were at that point called AK instead of AK-47. So, Undertaker is kind of right that if you are talking about the AK-47 pattern, then most likely it's an AK variant and not an AK-47.

However, the AK-47 pattern is very rare. So, if you are looking at an AK-47, most likely it's actually an AKM because AKMs famously get mislabeled as the AK-47.

But in my opinion the above is all pointless. What is more important right now is clarity on what you are talking about. The name AK is too confusing because the name AK can these days be used for ANY AK, including the latest modern AKs. So, I think it's good if you call the AK-47 pattern as the AK-47. That way, you can clarify what AK you are talking about.

tldr; Please use the name AK-47 to refer to the initial AKs because simply saying AK is too confusing.

[Icarus]

The model is already in the game its behind a treader in Rostok called Ragman

[Eevee.exe]

Originally posted by 7Beans:

Originally posted by RITALIN:

The Original Milled AK47s are quite rare. (The Stamped ones are even more rare!)
Even in Former Soviet Nations.
They where not produced on HUGE numbers. And the as they where phased out, they where either destroyed or sold to 3rd world countries.
What we Call the "AK47 is actually a modernization of the original design referred to as AKM. This are chambered in 7,62x39mm .

These are not to be confused with the AK74s, chambered in 5,45x39mm.
The AK74 has replaced the AKM in most (if not all) former Warsaw Pact countries.
You will only find AKMs in very backwater places, like North Korea.
Or Honour Guards. (as serimonial weapons)

Ps. Due to the lack of technical capabilities. North Korean AKMs are Bigger and chubbier than the rest. Combo that with the fact North Korean Soldiers are malnourished and you get some very funny pictures hahahha

Okay first thank you for an actual answer instead of all these other braindeads. All that makes sense and from my understanding the AK74 is the modern version being mass produced. The only part i kinda disagree with is the 762 AKM not being mass produced. I don't doubt its only service use is backwater countries but i have a hard time believing one couldn't be found in Chernobyl. The phasing out of the AKM only happened a decade before the Chernobyl disaster so i don't think its unreasonable to expect a decent amount to still remain.

Idd mention in further discussion, AKMs were still famously being used by Spetsnaz forces in Afghanistan during the soviet occupation, as they much preferred the older 7.62x39 cartridge to the 5.45x39, if you look anywhere you will find a VARY large number of accounts of such. soviets didn't start leaving Afghanistan until 1988, 6 years after Chernobyl, it's not unreasonable to have some, if not rare, akms floating around Chernobyl from some former soviet spetsnaz who were there when it started, or were deployed there shortly after, especially in some old pre zone soviet bunkers, where they could still be in somewhat decent condition as they are shielded from the elements.