How does wave scaling work?

[Spacesuit Spiff]

I've seen people suggest that it's partially based on collected loot, which seems accurate from my games. One data point: grab every cobalt that shows up, get demolished by 3 big zappy guys spawning together in wave 11. Start a new game avoiding cobalts like the plague, wave 11 is suddenly harmless. Not knowing how this is implemented raises a bunch of concerns.

Is it better to leave discovered resources un-mined if you can't retrieve them immediately, even if Squidfriend will gradually collect them?

Is collecting water for shield charging a losing strategy in the long run?

How is dome health supposed to be managed if cobalt negates its own purpose?

Are some tools a liability compared to how strong the waves get? Do Converter and Condenser ding you both for collecting them and then collecting the resources? Is "shred to cobalt" even worse than it looks?

Can anyone explain how this works under the hood and how to play around it?

[I>U]

Devs have left this post https://steamcommunity.com/games/1637320/announcements/detail/3482999795548098871

I'm not a reverse-engineer myself, but I don't believe resourses you find on the map are affecting the wave. Map in prestige mode is infinite - it's generated durring the run. But it's not generated on the fly, as there is a buffer of layers.

In other words, you need to flag any existing resourse and avoid collision with generated ones on the same event. Multiply it on realtime and such events happening in a second before the wave.

Sorry, mate, but oomies tend to complicate things. A lot of people playing Battle Brothers believed there is some tricky statistics involved. Turned out, it was your plain RNG seed and magic of 45% eccentric (probabilities capped at 5% and 95%) all along.

[zimny5811]

The wave difficulty is affected by:
- resources you mined out (the mining out of resources is enough to rise wave weight, even without bringing them back to the dome),
- gadgets you bring to the dome (you need to bring the gadget to the dome to rise wave weight, only mining it does not do that),
- wave count.

Also user |>U is wrong. Prestige map is not infinite, it has 9 layers.

[I>U]

Originally posted by zimny5811:

The wave difficulty is affected by:
- resources you mined out (the mining out of resources is enough to rise wave weight, even without bringing them back to the dome),
- gadgets you bring to the dome (you need to bring the gadget to the dome to rise wave weight, only mining it does not do that),
- wave count.

Also user |>U is wrong. Prestige map is not infinite, it has 9 layers.

Not going to argue with what was been listed (though I kind of want ), but you have clearly forgoten RNG seed. You too probably had those rare games when you have 2 runners for the 1st wave in regular relic hunt, right? (Never saw 2 ticks myself, by the way).

Since you guys have 4 candidates now, I guess, that would be the right time to pinpoint what affects the wave power the most.

[zimny5811]

Originally posted by I>U:

Originally posted by zimny5811:

The wave difficulty is affected by:
- resources you mined out (the mining out of resources is enough to rise wave weight, even without bringing them back to the dome),
- gadgets you bring to the dome (you need to bring the gadget to the dome to rise wave weight, only mining it does not do that),
- wave count.

Also user |>U is wrong. Prestige map is not infinite, it has 9 layers.

Not going to argue with what was been listed (though I kind of want :Neko: ), but you have clearly forgoten RNG seed. You too probably had those rare games when you have 2 runners for the 1st wave in regular relic hunt, right? (Never saw 2 ticks myself, by the way).

Since you guys have 4 candidates now, I guess, that would be the right time to pinpoint what affects the wave power the most.

Those 2 runners comes on wave 1, if you mine more than 14 iron before wave starts. At least that the point at which you get 2 runners on Prestige or brutal difficulty level, it might be different on other game difficulties (I do not play Relic Hunt, since I have everything unlocked already).

Also, the effect on each resource and gadget and wave count on difficulty are known. They are listed on Dome Keeper wiki, I think.
(EDIT. or you can find them on official Dome Keeper discord, were you are warmly invited to join :) )

[Spacesuit Spiff]

Originally posted by zimny5811:

Those 2 runners comes on wave 1, if you mine more than 14 iron before wave starts. At least that the point at which you get 2 runners on Prestige or brutal difficulty level, it might be different on other game difficulties (I do not play Relic Hunt, since I have everything unlocked already).

Also, the effect on each resource and gadget and wave count on difficulty are known. They are listed on Dome Keeper wiki, I think.
(EDIT. or you can find them on official Dome Keeper discord, were you are warmly invited to join :) )

Thanks friend.

Link for anyone who's curious: https://dome-keeper.fandom.com/wiki/Prestige#Wave_Strength

This seems... frustratingly videogamey because prestige is going to revolve around manipulating this.

Based on the language in the wiki, Converter and Condenser may or may not be straight up death, which is disappointing (Condenser may still be good due to automatically buffing the Tool without needing water).

[zimny5811]

Originally posted by Spacesuit Spiff:

Originally posted by zimny5811:

Those 2 runners comes on wave 1, if you mine more than 14 iron before wave starts. At least that the point at which you get 2 runners on Prestige or brutal difficulty level, it might be different on other game difficulties (I do not play Relic Hunt, since I have everything unlocked already).

Also, the effect on each resource and gadget and wave count on difficulty are known. They are listed on Dome Keeper wiki, I think.
(EDIT. or you can find them on official Dome Keeper discord, were you are warmly invited to join :) )

Thanks friend.

Link for anyone who's curious: https://dome-keeper.fandom.com/wiki/Prestige#Wave_Strength

This seems... frustratingly videogamey because prestige is going to revolve around manipulating this.

Based on the language in the wiki, Converter and Condenser may or may not be straight up death, which is disappointing (Condenser may still be good due to automatically buffing the Tool without needing water).

So few points. Difficulty coming from resources does not matter after wave 10 or so, since difficulty you will get from wave count is way bigger and you should have dome strong enough to handle strong waves. Condenser is a good gadget, mostly because of auto-overcharge. Converter is terrible, it just exchange one resources you need for another resources you need, and iron duplication is way too slow.

[HenIchaer]

I really hate prestige mode because of this strange scaling system.
It's a game about the digging. Why can't I dig and collect resources?

[Spacesuit Spiff]

Originally posted by zimny5811:

Originally posted by Spacesuit Spiff:

Thanks friend.

Link for anyone who's curious: https://dome-keeper.fandom.com/wiki/Prestige#Wave_Strength

This seems... frustratingly videogamey because prestige is going to revolve around manipulating this.

Based on the language in the wiki, Converter and Condenser may or may not be straight up death, which is disappointing (Condenser may still be good due to automatically buffing the Tool without needing water).

So few points. Difficulty coming from resources does not matter after wave 10 or so, since difficulty you will get from wave count is way bigger and you should have dome strong enough to handle strong waves. Condenser is a good gadget, mostly because of auto-overcharge. Converter is terrible, it just exchange one resources you need for another resources you need, and iron duplication is way too slow.

Checked the table and you're right. That is encouraging.
Also noticed time between waves is based on iron mined, so it might also balance itself out in a sense.

[Rithrin]

Originally posted by HenIchaer:

I really hate prestige mode because of this strange scaling system.
It's a game about the digging. Why can't I dig and collect resources?

This is exactly why they added the Mining prestige mode!

[Ace]

Originally posted by zimny5811:

The wave difficulty is affected by:
- resources you mined out (the mining out of resources is enough to rise wave weight, even without bringing them back to the dome),
- gadgets you bring to the dome (you need to bring the gadget to the dome to rise wave weight, only mining it does not do that),
- wave count.

Also user |>U is wrong. Prestige map is not infinite, it has 9 layers.

Honestly, I'm not a huge fan of punishing people for mining resources. Seems like a crappy way to enforce that "Pressured" feeling. It's like "Oh, you're struggling and looking for more resources to recover? Better spawn a gaggle of the large skull fliers spaced out across the entire sky, wave after wave."

It just kind of makes every run feel the same at the moment, especially since most upgrades are pretty linear, and with no meta-progression you don't really have a cushion for experimentation.

[zimny5811]

Originally posted by Ｃｙｐｈｅｒ:

Originally posted by zimny5811:

The wave difficulty is affected by:
- resources you mined out (the mining out of resources is enough to rise wave weight, even without bringing them back to the dome),
- gadgets you bring to the dome (you need to bring the gadget to the dome to rise wave weight, only mining it does not do that),
- wave count.

Also user |>U is wrong. Prestige map is not infinite, it has 9 layers.

Honestly, I'm not a huge fan of punishing people for mining resources. Seems like a crappy way to enforce that "Pressured" feeling. It's like "Oh, you're struggling and looking for more resources to recover? Better spawn a gaggle of the large skull fliers spaced out across the entire sky, wave after wave."

It just kind of makes every run feel the same at the moment, especially since most upgrades are pretty linear, and with no meta-progression you don't really have a cushion for experimentation.

It for sure has it down sides, but... how to balance game otherwise? With such a big range of skill difference between difference players, if you would based it on only wave count, then either: pros would have nice challenge and for everyone else it would be a nightmare or casual players would have nice challenge and pros would be bored to death with run that can last 5, 6 or even 7h. Besides, you all are worry about it way too much. It does not have as much influence on game difficulty as you think.

[HenIchaer]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2903845208

Last time I've tried this mode, in the 44th wave I got:
- 2 elite walkers
- 1 elite flier
- 4 giants with a drill
- dozen of regular enemies

I was stomped of course. So, it's a nightmare for casual me already.

For this time I scored ~300 points and I was gaining 6*12 points per wave.
Everything went fine until this wave.

My longest run in the RH mode was finished after 100 wave.
I really don't think, PM is ok)))

Originally posted by zimny5811:

with run that can last 5, 6 or even 7h.

Which weapon is able to kill a crowd spawned after 7 hours?
My fully upgraded laser was too weak after 2 hours.

[zimny5811]

Originally posted by HenIchaer:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2903845208

Last time I've tried this mode, in the 44th wave I got:
- 2 elite walkers
- 1 elite flier
- 4 giants with a drill
- dozen of regular enemies

I was stomped of course. So, it's a nightmare for casual me already.

For this time I scored ~300 points and I was gaining 6*12 points per wave.
Everything went fine until this wave.

My longest run in the RH mode was finished after 100 wave.
I really don't think, PM is ok)))

So here is the thing, you are close to what pros can achieve in terms of wave count. At wave 44 the resources you gathered do not matter much in terms of wave difficulty. And that waves looks "normal" on that wave count. Although, getting few hundreds to maybe 1000-2000 points in normal for casual players, so I guess your mining strategy is holding you back (and gadget choice since I see you have a Drillbert, which is unfortunately not good at all for Prestige).
Also comparing wave count on RH to Prestige does not really makes sense. Why? Because I bet that, that 100 waves you got was on normal difficulty level and prestige is close (or even equal) to brutal difficulty level. Plus, Prestige has difference resources distribution that RH (there is, for example, less cobalt per layer) :)

[HenIchaer]

Originally posted by zimny5811:

And that waves looks "normal" on that wave count.

I believe, this bundle of the enemies is unbeatable)
The Drillbert is useless, I know, but if you have to choose between the Drillbert and the Bombs...(((

I've left my attempts to score 1000+ points)
I'm so disappointed and angry about this mode. I don't know, why I'm still here actually...

[zimny5811]

Originally posted by HenIchaer:

Originally posted by zimny5811:

And that waves looks "normal" on that wave count.

I believe, this bundle of the enemies is unbeatable)
The Drillbert is useless, I know, but if you have to choose between the Drillbert and the Bombs...(((

I've left my attempts to score 1000+ points)
I'm so disappointed and angry about this mode. I don't know, why I'm still here actually...

If I have a choice between Drillbert and Bombs I choose cobalt :)

Sorry to hear that, it can be frustrating for sure. If you want you can join official Dome Keeper discord, we have a section about Prestige there, where we share our strategies, so you are warmly invited to join us :)