I want to Bob and Weave!

[Alterac]

So sometimes in the campaign I find the carrier battle groups of the IJN, I love charging into those formations and get close enough to launch torps before running away... But If i have squadron boats with me they die terrible deaths and sink like the non-quackers they are.

Can the Dev implement a system where we can tell the Boats to stay back? Just so I don't waste the RP's I used on them.

[insert food here]

Yeah i agree. Even in much less intense situations sometimes i know they are going to die and i would just like to tell them to disengage and leave ahead of time so i don't lose them.

[ToreDL87]

As probably ya'll know, the point with torpedoes is to engage from outside harms way, from a longer distance.
I use the same mindset here as I do in air combat sims, so the best engagement is the one where you smack and slap the lot of them without anything eventful happening.

Storming in head-on, toe to toe isn't how torpedo boats were used.
It's better to take a submariners approach, from the side, at night, before actually engaging.
That way you need merely close in to about 2000-1800m, at this range, if ship moves from left to right, you place your left side torpedo track marker on them, and fire a torpedo from the right side, that's about adequate lead for most ships.
I.e aim a few shiplengths ahead of them, drop your fishes, and extend (increase distance), simply wait for the big booms.
Even the Mark 8 is more than sufficient. Save before engaging a task force, and start practicing :)

If you go with a torpedo setup, something like 4 large torpedoes on the sides, 2 smaller in the front, or 4 smaller in the rear + mid and 2 smaller in the front you can take out a decent chunk of a IJN battlegroup without them ever detecting you, then call in planes on whatever destroyers/cruisers are left, close the distance, and, in the words of Patrick Swayze in Road House, "take out the trash", with your whole squadron, using conventional armaments.

[Rahl]

type 27s allll the way, fire 2-4 of em off from 3kms out, move for a while so that you have a different attack vector and by then your first set will have hit, launch another few, rinse and repeat till you're out then stay for a min to see if any of your hits will sink someone and dip and go get resupplied. tons of fun IMO i might have to try using as many BIG unguided torps as possible and getting closer with em, later in the campaign though when the groups run into half a dozen DDs and a couple light carriers or Cruisers getting any closer than you have to is almost a death sentence because of their heavier guns and 100 pack rockets which will MESS you up

[Darky]

Some sort of hold position command would indeed be nice to have.

[ToreDL87]

Another "issue", supply submarines, bar none = Hardest target to take out, you get them to surface and their thick hull means you have nothing but torpedoes to counter surface fire, and they require 2 Mark 8's each.
If they hit you with 1-2 shots, you're done, you can't get away in time to reliably dodge their shots.
And they come in in droves, I've got 4+2 to deal with in one go here.

I fear these vessels more than any Carrier, Cruiser or Destroyer, etc, you can't dictate the range (greatest ally to a PT boat).

Not even the guides I've found mentions this vessel.

And the rewards for smacking them in the first place? = Abysmal at best, it's so bad I almost got PTSD from War Thunder Sim Battle reward nerfs :D

[Darky]

Originally posted by ToreDL87:

Another "issue", supply submarines, bar none = Hardest target to take out, you get them to surface and their thick hull means you have nothing but torpedoes to counter surface fire, ...

In my testing they die to autocannon fire and are completely defenseless if you tail them. Their hull shouldn't be a problem if you have anything better than the basic Lewis guns, and utility weapons/rockets also exist for tougher targets like these and No.4. Subchasers.

[ToreDL87]

Originally posted by Darky:

Originally posted by ToreDL87:

Another "issue", supply submarines, bar none = Hardest target to take out, you get them to surface and their thick hull means you have nothing but torpedoes to counter surface fire, ...

In my testing they die to autocannon fire and are completely defenseless if you tail them. Their hull shouldn't be a problem if you have anything better than the basic Lewis guns, and utility weapons/rockets also exist for tougher targets like these and No.4. Subchasers.

Auto-cannon require me to face him head-on, no time to do that.
Rockets require me to face him head-on and at a specific distance apparently, no time to do either one of those, let alone both.

As soon as the DC goes off, they instantly surface, nevermind opening ballast vent valves or open hatches, run out on deck and start getting ammo out of containers etc as was actually the case with submarine surface action, as soon as that bow is outta the water it's game-on and as far as they're concerned 'business-is- a-boomin'.

I literally get no time to get back behind them to their stern, they immediately dispatch me, I'm too close to dodge. The entire side or end of my boat disappear, it founders in the same moment, my 2 repair crew doesn't repair fast enough.
And I can't
1) Take anyone from weapons systems, that means less DPS against vessels that take the first mags like a champ.
2) Can't take men off healing, I'll loose men within seconds.
3) Nor from reload, because 1).

I could put mortars on, but when I click the N button and get that minimap to drop shells, LMB, RMB, Q, Z, E or whatever else alphabetical or numerical key, nothing works, and the time that shell takes to land, I'm already crabfood.

Can't very well drop one and back up into the DC blast area either.

If I try with a frontal approach to get to their stern quicker, I'll need to first overtake them, and to begin with they're almost as fast underwater as I am on the surface (weren't most subs about 6-7kn top speed, minus the German XXI?).
And then I miss with most of my DC's, very hard to gauge a good DC drop at such a high merge speed.
So the act of taking them all out is a high risk, low reward grind.

Meanwhile, all the enemy surface bases are getting stronger and stronger thanks to these supply submarines as well, then they start filling up with Japanese vessels too, I can't get to any of the heavier ones to get the points needed for air support to begin with.

Another issue too is speed commands, I have to hold in the keys for the LONGEST time for it to actually switch speeds, and it doesn't let me change speeds at all while I turn.

These things were built for hit'n run at nighttime when Japanese shipping & surface operations was most active, but the way the game works Japanese are about as active at daytime as nighttime, so I can't always engage at night.

No idea why but within just a few hours this went from a fun PTO title to a quagmire where I'm literally running out of things to do with a limited weapons platform that isn't made for this kind of pitched all out fighting.
Everything was kinda all-good up until this point.

[Darky]

Originally posted by ToreDL87:

Unable to put auto-cannon on my current boat, and I just switched from the one I knew that could...

Sounds like you're using the 81' Experimental, which is a bit of a challenge boat due to her unique limitations. Otherwise, the other boats all have an Oerlikon in their default loadout. I recommend the 78' Huckins or 80' Elco as more beginner friendly boats.

You can also sink submarines instantly with a well-placed depth charge and they will be completely helpless in that case as well.

I understand that a submarine can't realistically start firing the deck gun right after an emergency surfacing, and we considered changing that, but thought it would trivialize them as they are already easy to deal with once you get accustomed to their behavior.

That said, if you're struggling with submarines, you can always practice at the Dangerous Waters challenge and avoid them in the Campaign until you are confident you can take them on.

You can always engage at night if you wish to; there is a clock on the Campaign View and it's the time parameter that's used when you join an engagement so you can exclusively fight at night if that is what you wish.

For fast forward, if you click on the symbols by mouse, that will be the set speed until you click something else or press the fast forward shortcut and release it. You only need to hold to fast forward if you're using the keyboard shortcut.

Hope this helps.

[Rahl]

i never had an issue with Supply Subs after i used DCs on em... got 2 in one DC once when they were right next to each other

[ToreDL87]

Originally posted by Darky:

Originally posted by ToreDL87:

Unable to put auto-cannon on my current boat, and I just switched from the one I knew that could...

Sounds like you're using the 81' Experimental, which is a bit of a challenge boat due to her unique limitations. Otherwise, the other boats all have an Oerlikon in their default loadout. I recommend the 78' Huckins or 80' Elco as more beginner friendly boats.

I figured this one out but was unable to edit in time for your response (which, knock on wood, is impeccable), I've been mixing up the vessels to see what works best.
Either way the auto-cannon is placed up front on the two vessels I've confirmed to have the auto-cannon upgrade so far, that's the armament whose end of the ship I just can't get to bear in time to avoid the inevitable.

And for that matter the auto-cannon doesn't work on anything so far, I put a guy/guys on it, but they won't train the weapon on target and fire.
Same thing with Mortar, wont fire, put guys on it but it wont work, click anywhere on the little minimap = Nothing happens, mortar wont fire.
Rockets has a minimum distance to work too, one that isn't clearly marked & defined, and that minimum distance is ages and eon's before I reach the effective, accurate firing range (where it's actually worth using the rockets).

The more I try to look for solutions to the problem here, I just find more problems.

Originally posted by Darky:

You can also sink submarines instantly with a well-placed depth charge and they will be completely helpless in that case as well.

Originally posted by Darky:

That said, if you're struggling with submarines, you can always practice at the Dangerous Waters challenge and avoid them in the Campaign until you are confident you can take them on.

Have tried saving before engaging subs on the campaign map and had many tries at it now, varying the timing of throwing out the DC once I pass enemy subs but I can't seem to get a knockout blow. 2+ of them start surfacing and its immediate game over for me.
IRL anything within 20-30 meters = No more sub, in this game = no dice.

I literally just yeeted a sub-chaser with depth charges (Boat Crew Screenshot channel on the Microprose discord), was left no choice because the auto-cannon wasn't working, but against subs under water, i.e under pressure, again, no cigar.

Originally posted by Darky:

I understand that a submarine can't realistically start firing the deck gun right after an emergency surfacing, and we considered changing that, but thought it would trivialize them as they are already easy to deal with once you get accustomed to their behavior.

Well for destroyers they were certainly no match, but these are PT boats built out of wood/aluminum/sheet steel.

Originally posted by Darky:

You can always engage at night if you wish to; there is a clock on the Campaign View and it's the time parameter that's used when you join an engagement so you can exclusively fight at night if that is what you wish.

For fast forward, if you click on the symbols by mouse, that will be the set speed until you click something else or press the fast forward shortcut and release it. You only need to hold to fast forward if you're using the keyboard shortcut.

Hope this helps.

I'm using the F2-3-4-5 keys for timewarp control.
I have to intercept enemy forces before they reach my ports at daytime, this leaves me no room to work with.


Subs being this hard to deal with was a hit below the belt, and can barely upgrade anything more. Everywhere I turn now = subs and they instantly yeet me.

Other issues popping up too where I have taken no damage, can't turn the boat, so I get yeeted right into a IJN horde.

Add to that my own task forces dealing with some.. Japanese fishing vessel 4-5 islands away (metaphor, but not far off from how aggressive they got when running out of targets historically) i.e nowhere to be seen when and where it counts.

And then I try to bring in air support and get at least something done, nope they start doing fly-by's and get shot down by the Japanese, it's like a weird reverse kamikaze reel where planes get lit up before ever coming within striking range.
It's just... aaaarghhh :))

Up until now I can't remember playing any game that ran out of fun in an instant before I was even a fifth close to completing it, considering it's got a living real-time PTO environment, doesn't fry anyone's computer, etc. It's an excellent candidate for an expanding rogue-lite 1942 task force title. Which as I understand isn't on your agenda.

Dgmw, it's fun up until a point, had me there for a while, but now just looking for coastal tankers to fry and not much else can be done. Either I face ports with 70+ ships that can't be touched or it's shooting up bamboo stick watchtowers with Bofors and 50 cals.
And out on the sea once I started facing those subs, it's like the power curve on a Turbo Diesel, fun/enjoyment instantly drops off past a certain point.
Everything the Japanese did they suddenly start not doing or flip on it's head and that just immediately kills it for me.
Really unfortunate :(

[Alterac]

Originally posted by Darky:

Some sort of hold position command would indeed be nice to have.

Don't know how the post got derailed to stuff about subs lol... But thanks for taking the feedback!

I just love the feeling of weaving in and out of the big targets, getting close (like 1 to 1.5km close) and launching torps, the feeling is great and epic.

[ToreDL87]

Originally posted by Alterac:

Don't know how the post got derailed to stuff about subs lol... But thanks for taking the feedback!

That one's clearly on me, sry for the hijacking!