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Here's my first impression/response after playing for 3-4 in-game days.
The good
- It's great that you can see what your allies see within the range of their convoys. The map as a whole feels a lot better and more 'alive' because of it.
- The allied landing parties that assist you now come with a destroyer and that's great! It makes a lot of sense too. (Before only the ones that spawned autonomously did.) Especially when the enemy brings in a counterattack with a Fubuki. You now have some firepower on your side.
- The mechanic of allies only having 2 (for now?) landing parties available to assist you feels realistic. Before, I just raided base after base and within a few days 1/3 of the map was mine and each base still had allies ships present. This paces the progress a little bit.
- The base circle of influence took some getting used to, but I like it!
- The game feels like having a *lot* more action from the get go. (Maybe a bit *too* much, as I'm only 3-4 days into the campaign, see below at side-effects.)
- The new machine gun sounds for the .30 cals are great. I haven't noticed much difference between the three different machine gun types. I'll check on that later. The .50 cals should definitely have that characteristic low-end punch in their sound. Edit: they do. All guns sound great!
edit to add:
- base raids are much more fun now! More dynamic. While still completely doable, and without my boat taking more damage than before (unless I do something stupid). So it's a similar outcome on how my boat and crew fare, but much more fun and dynamic.
The Bad
- Torpedo net location generation is... may I say ridiculous? They are like as if randomly airdropped by an uncaring crew; they spawned in a bunch of 15-20 in random orientations, through each other, almost through the pier/jetty. And there are way too many too, especially with their large-ish size. It does *not* at all feel like they are a purposely placed base defence this way.
May I suggest that torpedo nets are always aligned with either the coastline or perpendicular to a pier/jetty? It would make sense that they are only put in the places where ships would be alongside the pier or a little out from where they are anchored (if not at a pier/jetty). May I suggest that they would get more specific, more realistic locations? Like where would you put those to protect anchored ships?
IMO They should also spawn closer to the shoreline, to the ships they are meant to protect (no matter if the ships are currently there or not) and not right at *your* spawn point.
- I feel that the enemy spots you way, way too easily at night, even taking into account that they may be on alert already. My first mortar shell has barely left the tube and everything opens up. ...but they don't even know they are under attack yet, let alone where from. It's like the night is like day to them. It also feels like that taking out watchtowers has no impact anymore. So, yes, the enemy could be on alert, but I feel there still should be a distinct difference between day and night. E.g.
> it takes them a lot longer to spot you at night, even while on alert.
> only the nearest shore defences open up, because the others are still unable to locate you at night
> enemy mortars should, compared to daytime, be way more off.
> destroying watchtowers should cripples enemy fire control at night, so they cannot target you anymore, or they just guess where you are and are way off 90% of the time.
> the latter should also work with enemy mortars.
Now I understand the dynamics are different from before. Just coming in at night and sitting outside of enemy range and just sending mortar shells on their position was perhaps a bit cheesy. However this feels like the complete opposite. I feel there should still be an advantage to going at night, even if the enemy is on alert. So a median between how it was and how it is.
- You spotting the enemy at night; this is not specific to this update, but this update makes it worse IMO: when the enemy opens up to you at night, and is also well within range of your guns - more often than not I cannot fire back because my captain cannot spot them yet. But the tracer bullets are clearly indicating where they're shooting from. Before this update it was annoying, but now with everything opening up anyway as if daylight, this stands out as unfair. If they fire at me with tracers, I should be able to spot them and fire back, especially when in range of my guns, I feel.
Perhaps you could explain how this works? The enemy spotting you at night, and how their alertness plays into that? As well as what makes you able to spot the enemy at night, if / when they open up on you?
- Re-entering a base raid resets the whole raid. When I left the engagement all enemy defences had been destroyed, and the landing boats were almost at the shore. I left the raid, and the enemy had 6 strength left, somehow.
Then, while at the map, a party of 6 supply subs entered the base (raid). So I reentered the raid, barely an (in-game) hour later. but now everything was back to the start line. And the base had defences again too... Huh? That should not be the case...
- This one is not new to this update, but allies raiding a base don't really seem to seek out the enemy positions firing at them. More than once I've witnessed allied ships, both small and large sitting idle in the water with shells exploding all around them. Not even trying to seek and destroy the enemy position. I feel the allies, should be a little more pro-active in a base raid in seeking and shooting at (left-over) enemy positions.
The side-effects
I'm barely three or four days into the campaign and I have an mid- to endgame boat with a dual Bofors, unguided torps, .50 guns and all resources maxed. Here is the gist of how that's possible:
- First base raid also included coastal tankers. Many RP gained
- Allies responded, found another convoy of tankers anchored. Base taken, and more RP from tankers
- Enemy counter attacked with a Fubuki. Easily sunk, another 3000 RP
- 2nd counter attach with 2 Fubikis. Did win that too, but with only a Fletcher and Tender left, But that's another 6000 RP
- Second base raid. Again several tankers there. More RP
- Counterattacked again, another 3000 RP
- Next base raid: 4 tankers and 6 subs, many more RP
See where this is going?
While my allies can hardy keep up if I keep raiding bases, I gained so much RP in a short time I got a fully kitted out boat. A few in-game days like this and I'll have guided torps, a full squadron, and every possible call-in I could wish for. Then only my crew needs to level up.
The other side effect is that in the first 3-4 in-game days I had battles that I otherwise only had mid-game in the old campaign. And that campaign stalled for me, playing-wise, after I got 2/3 of the map on my side. After that it was just rinse and repeat with base raids until you also got the last 3rd of the map under control. But now there was so much action in the first 3-4 days that I wonder if this will become more the same thing even sooner.
On enemy mortars
The enemy mortars are a great addition to the game. I do feel that 3+ mortar positions are a bit overwhelming, though. Granted they hardly hit you. But they fire numerous shells in a short time. And when 2 or 3 emplacements open up on you, it's overwhelming to have that many red circles all around you, while also trying to work out what else is going on. Perhaps there could be a limit to how many mortar emplacements are at a base giving it's size, both in strength as in actual size.
So a small base could have max 1 mortar emplacement. A medium base could have 2, but if it's a physically small base, the emplacements might be combined into 1 position of 2 emplacements. Perhaps base on a very long shoreline could have the mortar positions spread out, one to cover one half the other to cover the other.
More than 2 mortar positions feels too much for medium defences, especially since there are many light guns that can open up on you just fine. Same for large bases, even though I haven't encountered them yet. I assume heavy base defences without mortars would be formidable already, so I'd suggest that there would not be more than 3 mortar emplacements, perhaps even placed all in one spot. I'll have to play more to see how that goes.
So it's not so much as how much firepower they have, but that it becomes too overwhelming IMO to have that many extra red circles for just one emplacement, let alone 3, on top of everything else.
Edit: I have to add that perhaps I still need to adjust my playing style to the presence of mortars. Having been in a few more base raids, the mortars are mostly noise and not much punch. If I prioritise taking them out with a few mortar rounds of my own they aren't much of an issue anymore. Perhaps I was too quick in my previous assessment.
The bugs
- In a base raid enemy submarines got to the rear of the landing boats, and then decided to sink themselves. I.e. they suddenly disappeared and left RP.
- My boat's sounds disappear at times when there is a lot going on. I would suggest prioritising player actions e.g. firing the mortar, before anything else. Because sounds are such an important part of your senses interpreting what's going on.
- At one base defence, the game told me my allies had 2 Fletchers, 2 tenders and a bunch of stuff, except it was only half that. (I'll have to confirm if that happens again, as I'll admit I'm not 100% sure about it yet. There is still a minute chance the enemy sunk 1 Fletcher and 1 tender without me realising, but honestly there wasn't time for that in that engagement.)
- I noticed a few times when I entered an enemy base's circle of influence that the red exclamation marks were not showing. This happened for example directly after a base raid. And once when directly returning into the circle of influence after leaving it for a second after the previous raid.
Edit: another few
- Mid-sea engagement: enemy convoy does not move at all, until fired upon. I had this happen in both engagements on surface ships so far.
- Mid-sea engagement on subs. Subs spawned outside of area borders and stayed there, so I could not get to them.
- Destroyers sunk when you attack a base they are at, i.e. they are anchored there when you start the engagement, they leave a lot or RP floating. Similar to a sunk merchant ship. This doesn't happen when they are the ones attacking. Then you get only the one box of RP.
IIRC they should only give you that one box of RP in the engagement, and you get the other 3000 RP afterwards because you sunk a target. This is not new to this update, I've encountered this very thing in the last stable version too. I haven't checked whether the game does or doesn't count the collected RP that shouldn't be there.
Edit2: even more....
- allied ships get stuck on/around torpedo nets
- squadron boat got stuck on/around torpedo nets
- full enemy fleet completely disappeared. The guns of the enemy destroyer were still firing. All enemy ships were still on the radar. But their actual physical models were not there. Friendlies stopped firing. Sea was empty.
- Front torpedo tubes (MK8, on the Elco) fire wide. The port torpedo goes too much to the left compared to where you aim it, and the startboard one too much to the right. The aft tubes work as before and do go where you send them.
- in the middle of a base raid suddenly a bunch of small enemy ships spawned at the pier out of nowhere
- upon entering an engagement suddenly my boat went completely under water and UI got removed. (I quit to title to avoid losing my boat and crew.)
Request
When entering the map screen, whether from loading your save, or after leaving a menu like the load-out screen, please let the game start PAUSED.
Conclusion
Great work! Love the direction the game it taking! The upgrades are all great!
You said you expected to need to work out balancing issues and such, so hereby my first experiences with the new experimental build.
1. Love the base defending mortars, they add a lot of spice to the raiding and the SFX sound great.
2. Love that the map feels way more active. You get a real sense of your own operations.
Will play more throughout the week.
This means they are no longer contributing to your threat level, since threat gain by electronics is capped to the first level.
This has now been updated in the experimental build.
The mechanic in place is not that they are spotting you, but they know they are under attack and they respond more quickly the higher your threat is. If you attack an unalerted base at no threat, they shouldn't be responding too quickly.
We don't really want to introduce a new mechanic for that as reduction of night fighting penalty is something that is meant to be gainable through veterancy and progression eventually.
There are many improvements, small and big, that we could possibly do to improve permanence of engagement results, but they are currently scheduled to be some of the last things we'll be doing before 1.0.
We already made some AI improvements in this patch, and are always looking to make more. AI in general has been something we iterate on slowly instead of getting its own dedicated update, so I'm hopeful we'll have the AI acting a lot more sensibly as we go.
This is actually intentional for the first bit of the experimental build; groups have reduced time gating and group spawns are tight, this was mostly done so we can get player feedback on how combat is with both the new Nagara and the rather crucial bugfix we did that makes small arms of all kinds hit less often. So that bit will be fixed by the time the update hits stable.
Mortars indeed seem to be spammed a bit too much at this point, we'll most likely be balancing them to be individually harder hitting/faster arriving, with a lot fewer of them on the map at a time. I do agree that it can get visually overwhelming, so this change should fix both that and that they are mostly visual with little credible threat to you. The threat would still remain fairly low, however, given well, it's a mortar and you're a boat.
I feel the base defense additions are a good improvement. Having to actually navigate the sub nets adds a challenge to your approach on the attack. I also like that some of the defenses are at different dimensions. Again, little improvements that are welcome.
I just encountered three Nagara cruisers in the same battle. What a smackdown they were!
My pleasure.
It's much, much better now!!
Thanks for explaining. I understand your reasoning. Perhaps the enemy can start firing back when my first shell(s) hit, instead of the moment I fire the mortar? That would make more sense to me.
Ah, that makes sense. I haven't encountered a Nagara yet, though. And 1/3 of the map is in my control now. Enemy counter attacks have gone silent now. And my allies do not bring a Fletcher to the base raids anymore...?
Having played some more, I would say that as they are they are good now. Mortars bring a lot more dynamic to base raids! Great addition to the game!
To add to the good things: the heavy seas and the foam near the coast looks very great. I also noticed the way the watchtowers collapse when they are destroyed. Nice work!
edit: using the radio to switch call-ins awesome!! It's really great because it allows you to go deeper into enemy territory, even with higher threat level. Being deeper in enemy territory means you cannot avoid daytime, but now you can replenish your call-ins so you have enough fighter support to deal with the patrols send against you, while still having ammo left to actually engage a convoy or raid a base.
On the other hand, I do feel heavy weather is very common. Most night raids I do feature heavy weather. And only a handful of day raids had nice calm weather. Perhaps the changes could be less frequent. Say a few days of calm weather before a few days of bad weather?
I also have some more bug reports, but I'll open a specific topic in the bug reports subforum.
I control 2/3rds of the map now in my experimental playthrough and have encountered around eight Nagaras total and in a couple instances more than three in the same battle. It's a challenge.
And yes on the invasions I have had the help of Fletchers.
Wow! That's quite different again from what the game throws at me. More fun too. My experience so far has been that once I control the main islands east of Pavuvu and Sidu, the enemy kind of get's bored and only attacks me occasionally. Supply convoys are hard to find. And I just needed to raid all the remaining 2/3 of the enemy bases to win. That was in my last two campaigns in 1.4.2.8 stable, both with Elco and Higgins. But it seems to happen again now.
I'll keep playing and see if it changes.
Torpedo nets are even better now.
My experience with 3 Nagaras was that they aren't any harder than 3 Akizukis. I brought ample artillery support and MK8 torpedos.
Nagaras take more hits to kill, but they fire more slowly, and go more slowly. I was able to sink one on the move with 2 MK8 torpedos.
I think they either need a buff or should always be accompanied by supporting vessels to be effective. It's a nice bit of flavor so far but if they were intended to be a boss unit they are lacking.
Also I'm not sure if it is a function of their size but I find that the Nagaras are clumping together and getting in each other's way more than the destroyers. With artillery and rockets it can be a recipe for a massacre. The pathing and spacing can be improved overall with all the ships.
Is it me or are the rear torps now switched. When you shoot the LMB, the right one shoots and vice versa. But they do splay out quite wide. I just learned to adjust my aiming.
I put this in its own thread in the general discussion but in case it was missed, I don't see the point of the sea planes. They are not better (or are they even worse than the zeroes?) and the fact they are only launched in singles means they aren't even worth targeting - just an annoyance. I suggest if they actually had torpedoes they could provide some value. Or, perhaps they improve the targeting of their home vessel like mobile watchtowers and they otherwise don't engage since they are shot down so easily.