Can the Dwarven melee units stand up to the higher-level units of other factions?

[cbinetti]

Do you think that the high XP costs,low Initiative, and only a little bit better HP at higher levels make Dwarves less competitive than the melee units of other factions, particularly Phantom Warriors and Infernal Knights? To me, Dwarves rely on their melee infantry but I worry that they have trouble at higher levels? Can someone reassure me that Dwarves are the best or at least competitive in terms of melee units?

[Reshig]

Although I don't usually go for their single-target front line, I can assure that they are one of the most versatile, competitive races, but you have to take into account your entire roster. Their boosters are really essential in the later portion of a map, allowing you to make your entire party a threat, and though you cannot dictate the pace of a fight, you can outlast your opponent and then unleash hell.

Having said that, one of the core strengths of the Dwarves is their spellbook, it's one of, if not the best in the game. Allowing them to compete with anyone else.

[cbinetti]

I thought of the spellbook issue, but is that not a crutch? Is not this the most spell-dependent faction? I am arguing about whether the single-target melee units are as capable as Phantom Warriors or Infernal Knights are competitive without spell support or boosters.
Let us compare-
Dwarf King- HP-250, EHP (effective HP)- 357, Damage- 100, Initiative 35, Special Abilities-Mind Ward, Water Ward, 2500 xp to level to lvl 6 (6255 xp total)
Rune Master- HP- 300, EHP- 300, Damage- 75, Initiative- 40, Special Abilities- Two Attacks, 2500 xp to level to lvl 6 (6255 xp total)
Venerable Warrior at Lvl 5- HP- 302 (I think), EHP- 302, Damage- 110, Initiative- 40, Special Abilities- None, 1750 xp to level to lvl 6 (5005 xp total)
Infernal Knight at LVL 5- HP- 297 (I think), EHP- 297, Damage- 110, Initiative- 50, Special Ability- Regeneration, 1725 xp to level 6 (5145 xp total)
Phantom Warrior- HP- 320, EHP-320, Damage-125, Initiative- 50 , Special Abilities- Death Immunity and Paralyze, 2100 xp to level 6 (5545 xp total)
Dark Lord at Lvl 5- HP- 240, EHP- 240 (more against magic), Damage- 89, Initiative- 50, Special Abilities,- Fire Ward, Earth Ward, Air Ward, Water Ward, 600 xp level 6 (2495 xp total)
one possible counterpoint
6255 xp total (equivalent to level 6 melee Dwarf advanced unit- Dwarf (level 49)- HP- 675, EHP- 675, Damage-135, Initiative- 40, Special abilities- none, 130 xp to the next level
Possessed- HP- 490, Damage- 108
Fighter- HP- 490, Damage- 108

[cbinetti]

So, if the melee Dwarves want to stand up against the Phantom Warrior, the so-called best infantry class, would not the humble locked Dwarf be the answer.
Level 7 Phantom Warrior- 7645 XP- HP- 384, Initiative- 50, Damage- 149, Special Rules- Death Immunity and Paralyze
Level 59 Dwarf- 7540 XP- HP- 775, Initiative- 40, Damage- 155,Special Rule- none
In head to head, assuming that you can keep your guy from being paralyzed all of the time, let us look at the match up
The Phantom Warrior needs 6 rounds to kill the Dwarf.
The Dwarf needs 3 rounds to kill the Phantom Warrior.
The Phantom Warrior will do 447 damage in three rounds.
The Dwarf will do 465 damage in three rounds.
The Phantom Warrior dies first and the Dwarf will still have 328 damage left. Even if the Dwarf is paralyzed before the Druidess or Archdruidess cures him, he will still win and survive. No spells needed. You might need Druidess support to win but otherwise you might be able to win without it.
Honestly the Dwarf seems like a match for even the Phantom Warrior but the advanced classes are not?
What can we do with the gold saved by not building four buildings? I wish that you could trade gold for mana, because mana for me is always hard to come by for the level three to level five spells.

[QWEEDDY2]

Dwarves 5 lvl warriors it's a common balance problem. One of them even not a new unit, but replaced alternate 4 lvl warrior - with old stats from Disciples 1. There is more problems with balance, especially with Clans faction. In Disciples 1 also Undead be too weak, and later in D2 and D2 GR - overpowered.

[cbinetti]

But locked Dwarves solves this problem. I have not played Disciples I in a long time, was it very different in terms of factional balance? Locked Dwarves and Hermits and maybe a locked Warrior in your army somewhere is the only defensible alternative to just Hermits in terms of Dwarven fighter units.

[QWEEDDY2]

Disciples 2 have some minor balance changes before\with GR release (and some unit descriptions), and later more balance changes for RotE game (also some portraits). Disciples 1 very differ balanced, and that normal - it completely differ game where units cannot be level-up (only unit tree upgrades). But some units in D2\RotE have exactly stats...

[strigvir]

Why would you bother locking melee dwarves when you can go mountaineer - hermit route? Same ini as mages and deaths (and on the second turn faster than them), but way faster xp growth.
Not to mention Hermit + Son of Ymir + Engineer provides very versatile damage type spread with little initiative problems.

[cbinetti]

I do not need three Hermits. So, I lock one Dwarf and can do the rest as you say. I lose nothing really, since the locked Dwarf will be a better tank than the Hermit and will have the same Initiative as the Hermit does and better single-target damage. So I think that the locked Dwarf mixed in with two Hermits is generally superior to three Hermits.

[strigvir]

Except there are no immunities to Hermit attack, only wards. And Arch Druidess/Alchemist are still worth it until maybe very late game. But Alchemist is a second second attack of your choice anyway, so there is no reason for a 3rd melee line dwarf.

[Vambran]

I always liked to go Dwarven Kings in my front line and make sure my hero has the +20 armour banner equiped.

Thats +50 Armour for each encounter. On hard fights you can buff them up to +90 with potions and spells. Only thing you can't do is heal them like empire or elfs which kinda sucks.

[strigvir]

You can buff frontline to 90 even without armor of Dwarven Kings.