Unfun no-win conditions

[stvaedju]

Specifically, starting in a world with enemies spawning ON TOP OF ME, locations where there is no starting rock, and spending the first 2 days continuously searching for Iron, which is mysteriously low in quantity despite being the most important early material. If I am literally unable to start, we run into problems like fighting Gronk on night 4 with half a set of cobbled up armor, no sword, and only flint arrows, not even a lot of em. Please fix spawning so that I don't start with no access to a rock, no ability to defend myself without a rock, and no ability to build an anvil for days, literally the most essential component to progressing past wooden tools.

Also, Gronk keeps clipping into me, which is an unfun instakill, because my mobility is reduced to zero as soon as I touch ANYTHING, and he is stepping INTO me to do his sword strikes. I have been killed with full adamantite armor and using the black sword because he did this. Please make Gronk a Pusher if he's going to run into melee range and make it impossible to escape because he stepped one step too close. That's a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ loss condition.

Still not a fan of Guardian's undodgeable death laser. Should you get a Guardian in a birch forest or somewhere with a similar lack of cover, you are dead. I strongly dislike that no matter how squirrelly I move, it connects constantly until he's done shooting or I find cover. That's the Aimbot level of accuracy that makes it unfun. If I am changing direction constantly, that laser should miss sometimes trying to FOLLOW CLOSELY. Of course, everything that uses ranged attacks is an aimbot, in this game, but most projectiles have some form of flying speed.

I think spawn conditions, the lack of even weak melee without Rock, Gronk's paralyzing clipping into me, and the undodgeable death laser need fixing. Anyone have anything to say against these opinions?

[chruppek]

git gud

[Pitbull_Style]

muck.

[Crystexe_3]

bro just get good , restart or stuff idk man

[Labtop 215]

One guardian is doable actually. Just build some walls so that you have something to hide behind. 3 buff guardians from a battle shrine is really hard though since they can go all over the place and multiple guardians can start the laser mid fight.

Other than that, I think you are focusing too much on armour and not enough on getting gold for upgrades. Your equipment caps out pretty early. Also, big chunk battle shrines can potentially get you iron (along with other materials that can make your runs far easier) and only require that you use a wooden pickaxe.

[jwilson6245]

git gud

[stvaedju]

For all the people saying git gud, I STARTED on gamer difficulty to accustom my self to the challenge, then switched to medium to enjoy the game. Then the Guardian got added, and that death laser ruined my enjoyment, and it has that effect EVERY time. It's no longer a lose condition for me to see the Guardian, it's just a cheap shot to get lasered, since it is specifically undodgeable. How TF does the Guardian know where I am going before I've started moving in that direction? Aiming where I'll be is fine, that move can be accounted for with skill. Getting lasered to death because Aimbot Hacks is why I don't play multiplayer shooters, period. Undodgeable continuous damage is not an acceptable crutch for decent AI programming.

Also, git gud doesn't apply to things like enemies being able to clip into you, and with enemies clipping through things being a known issue, it strikes me as something that isn't an intended point of gameplay. Getting out of Gronk's melee range is "Git Gud" maneuvering. Gronk stopping me in my tracks by clipping into my body is a gameplay bug that needs squashing.

As for constantly restarting, that's MetaGaming, and makes me feel dirty if I haven't beaten the game yet. Additionally, if "Restart the map" is standard gameplay, then the spawns are frequently ♥♥♥♥ and that could use some accounting for.

I just had a perfect run with dozens of relevant upgrades, max armor, hundreds of adamantite arrows on the Ancient Bow, the Night Blade, and over 400 health, and I got lasered to death by a Buff Guardian in one go. This is a problem, I thought they made it impossible to be one-shot killed on medium, which it seems is completely irrelevant when the damage is being done 15 times in rapid succession. Guardian sucked the fun out of this. I'd rather quit the game than start playing on easy over a single Mob. I'm just going to mostly ignore that 3 of them spawned from the second challenge stone I opened, which I waited to open because I keep getting triple boss spawns within 3 challenge stones. I'm officially calling them irrelevant to my gameplay, at this point, 3 Buff Gronks was bad enough. 123 hours of unhappy failure and frustration because the game changed drastically right after I installed it. I might uninstall.

[Nah]

sounds like a skill issue. get good.

[Cheese_Slope]

1st of all, it's a new game and bugs are to be expected. Reporting them is no problem but complaining about them is, when the game is only a couple weeks old.

2nd of all, the guardian's laser can easily be avoided. You just need to learn how to avoid them. Hiding behind statues is very effective, since the statues will not break.

If you are unhappy that mobs are glitching through walls and stuff you build, then get away from that stuff before night comes. It's hard to attack them when your stuff is in your way anyways.

3rd, it's just a game, and we don't care if you uninstall or not.

[Godlyvexx]

You can kill big chunk and gronk easily on night 4 with just a pickaxe. Hell, you can kill them day 0 by summoning them with a statue. Guardians take a bit more preparation, and the fights are generally a lot more tedious, but all you really need is to bring 10 walls, which only costs 20 wood. He starts charging the laser? Place a wall, boom. The laser only deals 1 damage to walls. I'm not sure if on later nights the laser can break walls, but if it can? bring more walls.

[黒(Kuro)]

you know, the world is mostly generated from seed, so you can get lucky or get ♥♥♥♥♥♥ instantly, it's the way of Roguelike with random world generation, just play, i got to night 7 on my first try, defeated guardian and gork killed me at last after i got surrounded by mobs and gork's sword skill where he sends wave of them hit me

[Serexus]

git gud

[vanilla]

muck

[bokita pasion #CASEHUG]

el de arriba se la come

[stvaedju]

Originally posted by Labtop 215:

One guardian is doable actually. Just build some walls so that you have something to hide behind. 3 buff guardians from a battle shrine is really hard though since they can go all over the place and multiple guardians can start the laser mid fight.

Other than that, I think you are focusing too much on armour and not enough on getting gold for upgrades. Your equipment caps out pretty early. Also, big chunk battle shrines can potentially get you iron (along with other materials that can make your runs far easier) and only require that you use a wooden pickaxe.

This advice has been very helpful. I've just completed my most successful run, day 25 and handling myself like a pro, I just got murdered by a glitch retrieving the last gem. Killed a Chief mid spin attack, and he left behind an ongoing invisible spin attack where his loot was. Walked right into the middle of it and died by something I had no control over, I'm frustrated, but I'll tell you what your advice did.

First, I went back to playing like there wasn't a win condition. There wasn't one when I started, and it made me play differently, more defensive. Second, I identified my play style. I'm a Berzerker. The reason I failed so often was my focus on the fight before me, and getting killed by back attacks. This is still a problem, but now I'll tell you the workaround I tried just 2 hours ago. The new villages can get me an adamantite sword by the end of day 0. At that point, I tried hitting every challenge stone I could find, since I couldn't lose much progress and those are free upgrades, what with me spending all my money upfront. I didn't bother with digging gold or getting materials, I just murdered my way through the first week of gameplay, committing to the Challenge Stones, buying my tools and letting armor be a "later" thing I made with the extra scraps of materials I got after getting a couple checkered shirts and bought said tools.

I spent the next two weeks of this run hitting boss challenges and fighting one of each at times, when I was challenging at night. If I *Embrace* the Berzerker and *fight* my way up, I can be VERY successful and patient about the rest of the stuff. By the end, I was hoping for triple bosses from challenge stones, the 5x sniper, 15 milks, 4x Knut's Hammer, 8 Dumbells, and 8x lifesteal were keeping the combat close and personal. I wanted 4 upgrades for 1 stone, and the loot lust is how I died and came to tell you how you helped. Live by the challenge stone, die by the challenge stone, and it sucks I got killed by a glitch in a run where I was unstoppable, but I have seen the way. Thank you for offering advice that was applicable to my own issues.

[stvaedju]

Originally posted by Pencil:

1st of all, it's a new game and bugs are to be expected. Reporting them is no problem but complaining about them is, when the game is only a couple weeks old.

2nd of all, the guardian's laser can easily be avoided. You just need to learn how to avoid them. Hiding behind statues is very effective, since the statues will not break.

If you are unhappy that mobs are glitching through walls and stuff you build, then get away from that stuff before night comes. It's hard to attack them when your stuff is in your way anyways.

3rd, it's just a game, and we don't care if you uninstall or not.

Yeah, I decided to use advice from the old "Frustrated Gaming" manual and walk away for a few days, then play half-assed and non seriously to relearn the evolving mechanics. I think of it like this. I am incredibly emotionally engaged with this game. I have to remember to calm myself between rages, and walk away from a string of bad runs instead of doubling down multiple times. This is only my second Rogue-like, Shattered Pixel Dungeon (mobile) being the first. I played that game over 100 times before I won once, but it was significantly less frustrating, being built on an open-source established game.

Your words ring true, this is far less complete than my first experience, but it is improving. I noticed that the Green Dudes now actually walk around rocks and trees now, for example. I also further adapted my gameplay regarding Guardians, including figuring out close quarters combat for if I can guide the fight into an Oak Forest. Out in the open, I make damn sure I have a bow and I fight running backwards, plinking it from outside lasering range. The new Chief is interesting, tough without being a crazy new combat experience. He struck me as more refined upfront, but I just had a near successful run for the first time at day 25ish and OP AF, and I just died from his spinning attack glitching and continuing after I killed him, still invisibly cutting up the area a full 5 seconds after his ass was dead. I walked back for the drop, and got cut to pieces after the fight was over, while on my journey to collect the last Gem. I ALMOST got to see Bob today, and I'm very excited about trying my new method again, but also not killing Chief while they are doing their spinning attack. It's a new game, and I've gotta learn the glitches until they are fixed, and report them without being screaming mad, pounding the keys like my fingers were an old typewriter. Which I'm about to do after acknowledging the two of you who's comments made an impact on my experience. Thanks for helping me keep a level head so I can report this calmly.