Forest Witch

[Vortal]

Hey, I was wondering if you can spare the forest witch ?

[Nederbeest]

Sure. Don't hit the "x" button when prompted. You won't like it though.

Other than that, no.

[Gremling]

Originally posted by Nederbeest:

Sure. Don't hit the "x" button when prompted. You won't like it though.

Other than that, no.

Let me guess - she murders you on the spot.

[METAL]

Originally posted by Gremling:

Originally posted by Nederbeest:

Sure. Don't hit the "x" button when prompted. You won't like it though.

Other than that, no.

Let me guess - she murders you on the spot.

I tried it once out.
She basically shows you in excitement how beautiful her nails are.
Even when you stab her once in the face she doesn't die.

[SRGE]

Do we know why Tuva was upset at Olle killing the grove witch, as well as Olle feeling bad about having killed the witch? Other than feeling bad about 'having had...' to kill her in the first place, it doesn't seem like there is any real reason to regret killing her. She murdered dozens of villagers, she lured you into the grove to kill you, then when spared and shown mercy, she still kills you. Is there really a reason that the player, ie; Olle should feel bad about her death? After all dozens of dwarfs die, trolls die, etc. yet it's this 'witch' Olle feels bad about killing as he crosses into the Bramble King's Castle.

[METAL]

Originally posted by SRGE:

Do we know why Tuva was upset at Olle killing the grove witch, as well as Olle feeling bad about having killed the witch? Other than feeling bad about 'having had...' to kill her in the first place, it doesn't seem like there is any real reason to regret killing her. She murdered dozens of villagers, she lured you into the grove to kill you, then when spared and shown mercy, she still kills you. Is there really a reason that the player, ie; Olle should feel bad about her death? After all dozens of dwarfs die, trolls die, etc. yet it's this 'witch' Olle feels bad about killing as he crosses into the Bramble King's Castle.

I never understood that either. The way she giggle when she kills you.
All he did is defend himself. Unless he had the hots for her.

[Nederbeest]

Originally posted by SRGE:

Do we know why Tuva was upset at Olle killing the grove witch, as well as Olle feeling bad about having killed the witch? Other than feeling bad about 'having had...' to kill her in the first place, it doesn't seem like there is any real reason to regret killing her. She murdered dozens of villagers, she lured you into the grove to kill you, then when spared and shown mercy, she still kills you. Is there really a reason that the player, ie; Olle should feel bad about her death? After all dozens of dwarfs die, trolls die, etc. yet it's this 'witch' Olle feels bad about killing as he crosses into the Bramble King's Castle.

The biggest difference is that Olle killed her in anger and hate (that's why he stabs her multiple times in the end). During all the other fights he was fighting to survive or rescue his sister (or someone else), but in this fight he wanted to kill her. That was what scared Tuva and Olle as he showed that he too could be corrupted into evil. It's a fine line. Näcken for example is the tragic example of someone who gave into those urges. He started off as a good/neutral character, but became a murderer and evil. As was king Nils.

The Shapeshifter is a neutral being, neither evil nor good. She does these things as that's in her nature. She has always been like that. Kinda like a predator. A wolf will kill but is not evil by default.

[Gremling]

Originally posted by Nederbeest:

Originally posted by SRGE:

Do we know why Tuva was upset at Olle killing the grove witch, as well as Olle feeling bad about having killed the witch? Other than feeling bad about 'having had...' to kill her in the first place, it doesn't seem like there is any real reason to regret killing her. She murdered dozens of villagers, she lured you into the grove to kill you, then when spared and shown mercy, she still kills you. Is there really a reason that the player, ie; Olle should feel bad about her death? After all dozens of dwarfs die, trolls die, etc. yet it's this 'witch' Olle feels bad about killing as he crosses into the Bramble King's Castle.

The biggest difference is that Olle killed her in anger and hate (that's why he stabs her multiple times in the end). During all the other fights he was fighting to survive or rescue his sister (or someone else), but in this fight he wanted to kill her. That was what scared Tuva and Olle as he showed that he too could be corrupted into evil. It's a fine line. Näcken for example is the tragic example of someone who gave into those urges. He started off as a good/neutral character, but became a murderer and evil. As was king Nils.

The Shapeshifter is a neutral being, neither evil nor good. She does these things as that's in her nature. She has always been like that. Kinda like a predator. A wolf will kill but is not evil by default.

I initially thought it's because "oh no - he a child, but he out there killing people" - meaning the shock factor of a child playing the active part in such a gruesome scene, but your explanation makes a lot of sense too.

We should remind ourselves what character we play. Little kids shouldn't be out there purposefully stabbing folks in the head. He had to do so, not only to protect himself but also to stop her using the image of his beloved sister. That justifies what he did, but other than that it's still a fully intentioned ending of someones life. Wether or not WE are ok with it doesn't have to make it ok for Ole or Tulva. A moment of shock and regret is the least he should be allowed to feel.

[Nederbeest]

I did some digging as I knew of the creature but not all of the folklore... The Shapeshifter, or Skogsra or Huldra (woman of the forest) is a spirit of the forest (an elf). She is closely related to gnomes and trolls and takes the appearance of a beautiful naked woman.

She lures men with her beauty into the forest to make love with them. If they do, they can leave with their lives (but must keep her true nature a secret or be punished). If they refuse her she will kill them. She has a bushy cowtail that hides her hollow back (like a hole in a tree, as she is sometimes linked with pinetrees).

In folklore she can be both benign and friendly or ficious and cruel. Like I said, a true neutral being.

[darkling235]

Huldra folk are usually depicted as neutral beings of the forest even though they can be dangerous. But this one is pretty clearly evil. She lures you into a trap, she started the fight, and that's even without finding out that she's been murdering all of those villagers for no reason as far as we can tell. I feel like the story is jarring for making us try to feel guilty about killing her. It didn't try to make us feel guilty about the swamp witch or the fiddler. Are we supposed to feel sorry for this monster just because it looks pretty? I feel like there's a double standard here.

[ElfPrince1937]

Originally posted by darkling235:

Huldra folk are usually depicted as neutral beings of the forest even though they can be dangerous. But this one is pretty clearly evil. She lures you into a trap, she started the fight, and that's even without finding out that she's been murdering all of those villagers for no reason as far as we can tell. I feel like the story is jarring for making us try to feel guilty about killing her. It didn't try to make us feel guilty about the swamp witch or the fiddler. Are we supposed to feel sorry for this monster just because it looks pretty? I feel like there's a double standard here.

Might be necro-ing the Discussion, but was wondering about this myself. I think the best answer is probably:

Originally posted by Nederbeest:

The biggest difference is that Olle killed her in anger and hate (that's why he stabs her multiple times in the end). During all the other fights he was fighting to survive or rescue his sister (or someone else), but in this fight he wanted to kill her. That was what scared Tuva and Olle as he showed that he too could be corrupted into evil.

So it's really less about Skogsra, more about Olle. If anything, it's the same spiritual narrative that you get with, say, Luke Skywalker in Dagobah's Dark Side Cave in Star Wars: are you striking the killing blow in a moment of hatred, or are you able to retain a zen-like calm and simply do what is necessary?

For the individual making the killing blow--and who, more importantly, will go on living afterward--it makes all the difference.

TL;DR: Skogsra = Olle's Dark Side Cave.

Of course, an alternate take is also that everything dark, evil, and corrupted about the forest is an extension of the Mountain King's curse, and therefore it's all ultimately King Nils' fault.

[Ecliptic]

Also note that you can't blast the stone until after the rowboat boss (the darkness is vanquished). This hints at a corruption.

[ElfPrince1937]

Originally posted by Ecliptic:

Also note that you can't blast the stone until after the rowboat boss (the darkness is vanquished). This hints at a corruption.

Especially when you consider that Tuva is all but confirmed to be the Galadriel-esque figure who imprisoned the Mountain King to begin with...who is clearly referred to as a "witch."

So kind of draws attention to witches pre-Christianity (read: before they were demonized) in the sense that they were initially Herbalistic/Natural/Druidic healers before the king launched his genocidal crusade, that level of mass murder creating a darkness/curse that proceeded to pervert and corrupt the once-good forest.

Funny how I keep coming back to Frozen 2 with stuff like this, but there you go--there's a very similar mythological backstory there, as well, albeit far more appropriate for children.