Confusion Spell

[eddieballgame]

The Battle Cost for the Confusion Spell is '15' & the Research Cost is '130'.
Considering how easy it is to cast & defeat enemy armies, what about increasing the costs to the point that it is not as effective/cheesy to use.
Thoughts?

[[*~MAJA~*] Mandragoron]

First it must hit (break through the resistance)
then it needs to trigger (some chance every round but not save chance)
and then the enemy needs to have troops beside the unit so they can fight the one turn it is ony our side, or else it will just run to the enemy in that turn..

I find it fair as it is

[bjarne.lindh]

No, its waaaay OP. Invisibility+Mage+Confusion=Unbeatable by this AI, not to mention the Lairs. I have written about this elsewhere, so few creatures can see invisibility, AI never casts True sight. You quite often find invisibility item and also items that lower spell resistance, a single hero can take down an empire with this spell alone. In my mods in COM I had to nerf it ALOT but still, in the end when heroes have enough mana and Mindstorm, its still OP. :)

[bjarne.lindh]

Also, this battle field is really big so you dont need to be invisible, many moves or flight wins alot of fights just by getting the 2 worst melee foes confused. Even if you dont win first time, since they cant catch you, youll get them next battle. Teleportation/Merge needs to become what it say it is to prevent this.

[[*~MAJA~*] Mandragoron]

Originally posted by bjarne.lindh:

No, its waaaay OP. Invisibility+Mage+Confusion=Unbeatable by this AI, not to mention the Lairs. I have written about this elsewhere, so few creatures can see invisibility, AI never casts True sight. You quite often find invisibility item and also items that lower spell resistance, a single hero can take down an empire with this spell alone. In my mods in COM I had to nerf it ALOT but still, in the end when heroes have enough mana and Mindstorm, its still OP. :)

Invis is OP, not confusion. With invis the enemys dont move, so the one turn they change side they can attack as no body moved.
If not invis, the enemys move and its much much harder that they can attack in the that turn.
Yes speed is a good thing, but a lot of things are strong in this game, without invis the spell is fine. Remove invis if you want to nerf this exploit....

[bjarne.lindh]

On this battleground I can just aswell have 8 moves and magicimmunity and they cant touch me, with most guardian wind and elemental armor works just as fine. Invis SHOULD not be removed but it SHOULD be a late game spell. Which is exactly why those items where removed in COM and ShiBo came real lategame and it was impossible to get the spell invis on an early stage. Thats what should be done, and nerf Confusion, cause that spell you have from start if you play sorcery.

[bjarne.lindh]

You also wanna remove the Nightblades then? Make it costly to cast Confusion, if there is a way to give opponent extrares against it then we should do so.

[The1Kobra]

If it's anything like legacy, confusion is a really strong and cheap debuff spell. That said it does have a few downsides, being that:
It's random, so it can totally mess up an enemy, but it can also be useless if you don't have good luck with it.
It does have a resistance penalty of -4, but later on, units have higher resistances, so it won't be as reliable. It's still pretty good but if you're trying vs an enemy with 11 resistance, it'll only stick 70% of the time. So it's even more unreliable.
Enemies with illusions or magic immunity are outright immune to it. The former includes most death realm creatures, meaning it won't be useful for dealing with them.

Finally, enemy wizards can use dispel magic to get rid of the debuff. Since it's a low cost, that means it's relatively simple to dispel, though it's harder if the caster has the sorcery mastery retort, which admittedly most dedicated blue casters will have.

[bjarne.lindh]

Well, Im on my 13th game now at masterlevels and Im amazed of how very seldom I cant use confusion to grind a stack down. I have not ONCE seen true sight being cast, not ONCE met a hero or unit with this enhantment. I met a hero ONE time who had because of item. And the creatures that have Illusion immunity I havent seen much, only in lairs, and not many. Colossus doesnt have it...and is now easy prey for invisible archers. So legacy or not, it aint working out cause its too good too soon. But if confusion isnt nerfed, then I sure hope more creatures get illusion immunity and that AI starts using true sight more.

[morchuflex]

It's not really OP, only the clever usage experienced players make of it in combination with other tricks makes it seem so.
But then, a lot of things could be considered OP: Adamantium slingers, anyone? Heck! I coud contend that just playing Dwarves is OP!

[bjarne.lindh]

True...my adamantium elven archers seems to kill everything in 2 strikes (ultraelite though). But am I really the only one who thinks we should balance the game, to make it more challenging? Ofcourse I can change lots of things myself, but I really dont see any way for me to mod the wizards to use true sight, or not attacking flying when they have absolutely nothing to touch flying. The creatures I will absolutely mod COM style...theyve been changed for good reason! And yes...I will probably nerf Slingers and Elven Archers Im starting to realize... :)

[bjarne.lindh]

Also the AI seems to react strangely to simple mods... I recently tried a settlermod trying to prevent the cityspamming but it had little effect, the world was still carpeted in citys BUT suddenly the neutrals started defending their citys with settlers? I have modded COM for years in every aspect, settlers Ive modded many time and many ways, never did such strangeness occur...

[UmbralAngel]

Originally posted by bjarne.lindh:

Also the AI seems to react strangely to simple mods... I recently tried a settlermod trying to prevent the cityspamming but it had little effect, the world was still carpeted in citys BUT suddenly the neutrals started defending their citys with settlers? I have modded COM for years in every aspect, settlers Ive modded many time and many ways, never did such strangeness occur...

Thats odd, were you using the "three little settlers" mod I posted on Nexus or did you make it yourself?

[Thewizardlord]

Originally posted by bjarne.lindh:

True...my adamantium elven archers seems to kill everything in 2 strikes (ultraelite though). But am I really the only one who thinks we should balance the game, to make it more challenging?

Oh my sweet summer child... MoM is unbalanced and asymmetric by nature. You want "balanced" go play CoM.

[carn112004]

Originally posted by Thewizardlord:

Originally posted by bjarne.lindh:

True...my adamantium elven archers seems to kill everything in 2 strikes (ultraelite though). But am I really the only one who thinks we should balance the game, to make it more challenging?

Oh my sweet summer child... MoM is unbalanced and asymmetric by nature. You want "balanced" go play CoM.

But the AI should be "aware" about some unbalanced issues and make use of it.

For example, the AI should at least use flyers to harrass by ataacking, firing shots and casting spells and then wait till end of battle, if enemy ground forces cannot attack air and is too strong for melee attacks.

In the hands of human, sprites are wonderful.

For the AI they are useless already against 2 swordsman, cause ranged fire will kill at most 1, and the other then gets attacked in melee and the sprites die; since sprites cost 100 mana, but 2 swordsman cost 40 production, that is a clear and PREVENTABLE loss; just fire of 4 shots, wait and draw, and attack again.

[bjarne.lindh]

Yes, I WOULD like to play COM, but with decent graphics! :) And when all are done feeling nostalgic about legacy Im sure thats exactly where will end up... COM exists because players got boored with the fact that certain exploits makes the game too easy. But my hopes are this will be even better, since starting support of modding and eventeditor will increase possibilities of customizing game experience. But many things we wont be able to mod (I think), like which spells wizards choose to cast in battle, and now its 99 % dispel magic... I have begun realizing the opponentwizards are really lagging in powerdevelopment, every game by aproximately turn 125 (when I have met them all) I compare my spellpower and find Im 3 times the one that is second to me.
The settlermod I tried wasnt named "3 little settlers", you think that one is working to stop AI cityspamming?