Race Ranking & Difficulty Settings

[eddieballgame]

This post by 'rgp151' (excellent btw) gave me an idea for a new Difficulty Setting.
https://www.realmsbeyond.net/forums/showthread.php?tid=10788

What if there was a Difficulty Setting based on one's starting race. Of course, the ranking would have to have some worthy consensus & the link offers a viable starting point to that...discussion.
Thoughts?

I have attached the link to demo this idea.
https://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=989737#p989737

[Aunty Herbert]

Just from the way the game starts I am not sure how that could work, or what that would achieve.
After selecting "new game", you are in the game difficulty screen, where you can select options about map size, starting wealth, etc. Yes, the totality of your choices is somehow calculated into an overall number. The only time, you will see that number ever again is when calculating the final score.

Race selection happens several screens after that. And while there is some general agreement about some races, the ideas about other races widely diverge. Some believe, that Klackons are basically dysfunctional, I, and other Klackon players, feel, that they are one of the strongest races.

So, you basically would have to reprogram the entire starting procedure, just to reflect some personal subjective judgement on the final score screen?
I hope the devs employ their time on more useful projects.

[eddieballgame]

Originally posted by Aunty Herbert:

So, you basically would have to reprogram the entire starting procedure, just to reflect some personal subjective judgement on the final score screen?
I hope the devs employ their time on more useful projects.

Not really, after selecting the particular race on page 2 of the Difficulty Settings... be honest & play that race.
I get that it is all subjective per how the races compare, this is just an experiment.

[Witch ~]

Poor bugs arent very good

[Aunty Herbert]

Originally posted by Witch ~:

Poor bugs arent very good

Bugs earn bucks. If you play them accordingly, they hold their own. Worse than halflings, sure, but what race isn't?

[Jimib4158]

I worked up to max, to see if the game was pathetic and cant fight.....Ive found on max everything he out-numbers you like 10:! and with that advantage he is a challenge BUT this world of having to push my development, to fight his hordes, just wasnt fun IMO, so i backed off one setting on the wizard and that seems better

[RandomConsonant]

Klackons are fine but not really my thing due to the total lack of range and wanting to pigeonhole you into picking Alchemy (the universal unfriendliness doesn't help in the original either but that matters less here), not something I'd consider S tier by any means but there's considerably worse.

Not sure how I feel about those ratings in the linked thread either but that's another matter entirely.

[Jimib4158]

Originally posted by RandomConsonant:

Klackons are fine but not really my thing due to the total lack of range and wanting to pigeonhole you into picking Alchemy (the universal unfriendliness doesn't help in the original either but that matters less here), not something I'd consider S tier by any means but there's considerably worse.

Not sure how I feel about those ratings in the linked thread either but that's another matter entirely.

Yeah if gold is your main concern you need a race that can at least build banks.
I like halflings, cause of their slingers, but usually make only a couple cities of halflings, and always knock off a city that has a race that can at least build banks

[Aunty Herbert]

Banks need to build and maintain a marketplace, a library, a sages guild and a university for a bonus on tax income. They need forever to build and a huge city to even pay for their own maintenance. And the races with bank access don't have growth boni either.
Bugs just need the basic food buildings to send their workers to printing money via tradegoods. If you go for quick gold, sweatshops beat banks by miles. 500 gold per turn by turn 150 is about average for bugs.

[Jimib4158]

yeah im not saying the bugs arent a powerfull race, their just not fun to me.
That said i love getting one bug adamite city, the stag-beattle, pound for pound is one of the best units in the game.

[Thewizardlord]

The difficulty % is at best a guide.

The fact that smallest maps is higher difficulty is subjective. If you play rush strategies, smallest map makes it easier.

You can in fact even add a starting hero bshan and fiddle with the settings and get difficulty levels of 200 or above. Which is insane.

[Waterd103]

Surprised he ranks Klackons bottom as they are one of the best imo.
My ranking regardless of magic realm. (it changes slightly but the general ranking stays)
1. Halflings
2. Trolls
3. Gnolls
4. Lizardman
5. Klackons
6. Barbarians
7. Beastman
8 Dwarves
9. High MEn
10. HIgh Elves
11. Nomads
12. Draconians
13. Dark elves
14. Orcs

The Klackons can Spread soo ridiculos fast that you are pumping out bettles everywhere when other races are just starting to get to their units. You will get like half the map before most other races get to their "big untis" or "buildings.
They are also easy to play.
1. Spread like a plague
2. Rush betttles
3. ???
4. Profit.

Supposdely is my understanding that a lot of the bottom of my list races are good because they can build great cities with a lot of high tech buildings but why do that when you can conquer cities with high tech buldings? It's more efficient to conquer than build yourself.
That's why i feel the best races ae ones that have a kinda of op early game unit that you can spam and conquer cities very fast.
GEnerally the bottom list lack such units they have only good "lategame" units and lategame units kick in too late.

[RandomConsonant]

Setting aside any matters of hyperbole (other than to say most of the advantages conferred by more complex build trees are economic/research oriented, there's nothing preventing anyone from focusing on military concerns first), even by that criteria I'd say that trolls/gnolls are several places too high and HE/draconians are several places too low.

[easytarget]

OK, so mid game what is the trick with Gnolls? Because I'm missing something.

[Aunty Herbert]

Originally posted by easytarget:

OK, so mid game what is the trick with Gnolls? Because I'm missing something.

Use the loot you made in early game to your advantage. Ideally you will have some green books, so you can move your tower to some nice conquered halfling settlement and everybody loves you. Even if not, Gnolls aren't too horrible in managing most other races.
You use your Gnoll cities only for pumping out soldiers, and build settlers from conquered stuff. Halflings, Orcs, Beastmen and Trolls don't mind being ruled by Gnolls, and the other races except Klackon and Dark Elves are content once you build them a simple Shrine and don't tax them too harsh.

Btw, I find all those rankings pretty stupid. Like putting Orcs constantly on last place.
If you play Death Magic focused for example, you want Cathedrals and Alchemist buildings, to have all your mana needs filled homegrown, and you capture nodes only for research, as you get 30+ power from every finished city, which is way more than you get from the majority of nodes unless you play with high mana.
Suddenly High Men and Orcs become top notch choices, as they can grow their cities faster than other races with Cathedral tech.
Arguably Wyvern without enchantments are a bit disappointing in battle, but if you grind the AI wizards down via curses, speed is all that is needed to wipe their puny remains off the map, and there arent that many races with fast flying critters. They are def great at scouting.

Long game strategies may not work as well with AI wizards on highest aggro level, (unless you got a good plan to survive early on) but if there is ONE good tip to a beginner, than, MAYBE don't start with all settings on maximum difficulty.

If you want to be helpful to beginners, don't write stupid lists, explain what races and what colors support what gameplay.

[eddieballgame]

After playing the Orcs, they are not that bad.
Rumors of their weaknesses are greatly exaggerated...that includes the Dark Elves, as well.