Wrong unit's movement speed

[4xNoob]

Hi all. I'm sorry for any mistakes as English is not my native language.

Based on the twitch streams and reviews on youtube of the demo version of Master of Magic, several questions arose. Or rather one big question.
Why do some units have a different movement speed than the original?

Most units that had a speed of 1 (original MoM) now move twice as fast. And settlers generally have a speed of 3. This change affects only a part of the units, and not all. Why is that?

At first, I thought that this was done due to the limitations of the demo version, where the player had only 100 moves. And in order for the player to have more time to explore and settle, the speed of these units was changed. However, in the demo version, I noticed some change on the battle field, namely, the original distance between armies is 6 cells, in the demo version, the distance is 7. That is. I assume that these STRANGE unit speed changes will be in the release version of the game.

Assuming that this was taken from Caster of Magic, then the next question is, why weren't the rest of the changes taken then, but only the movement speed? Not only is this change from CoM extremely controversial and breaking the original balance (for example, ranged and ranged units have lost a lot of effectiveness, the inability to keep the formation due to the lack of zones of control), but the rest of the gameplay remains the same as in the original. If you like CoM so much, check out all the changes from there.

I understand the idea - to make the game faster, because modern gamers (according to all modern game developers) are casual and lazy. But, while there is still time, at least make a setting at the start of the game - Unit movement as in the classic MoM (and return the distance between battle lines to 6 cells, not 7). Please to meet the fans.

[Name]

Good idea

[roland.johansen]

I've never heard about a game being released with two sets of unit statistics. It's hard enough to balance one set. So I wouldn't bet on this.

However, the game is supposed to be moddable, so creating a mod where the unit speeds are exactly like in classic Master of Magic should be very easy. It's just a simple unit statistic.

Changing the size of the battlefield or starting position of units on the battlefield might not be so easy. They might not have made it easily accessible to modding.

But I guess we'll only know the extent of modding capabilities of the game after the release.

[4xNoob]

sad. just copy all from classic MoM and it will be a great remake... but, again.

[roland.johansen]

Hey, I just gave you a constructive way to get what you want.

The developers have made the game moddable so you can easily do this. Maybe someone else who also wants the old Master of Magic movement speeds will do it for you and share it. Then you can be the casual and lazy modern gamer (that you describe in your first post) who only presses the download button to get it installed. Or maybe you can be proactive and creative and create the tiny mod yourself and contribute it to the Master of Magic community. That would be a nice thing to do for those who want the old movement speeds.

[XenoReaver]

Modding a units speed and changing it to the original MoM values will take little more than a few minutes at most.

[4xNoob]

Of course i'll try, when release.

Modding only takes a few minutes?

Here is what needs to be adjusted:
- Movement speed ALL units
- All Spell effects (spells for movement speed have also been changed)

A few things that will most likely not be so easy to adjust:
- The size of the battlefield and the deployment of units
- The configuration of the castle walls is also different from the original
- After the outpost turns into a village, a swordsman appears there

I'm not sure if these things can be easily changed "in a fewf minutes"

Probably someone may have a question, why do I pay so much attention to these little things? Cuz I already see a few downsides to these changes. Imagine for example, a settler with a movement speed of 3, under the Endurance spell (which now gives + 2 more speed) which, in theory, will allow you to run out of the city in ONE turn and build an outpost. BY ONE MOVEMENT.
Roads will speed up even more, which makes a lot of aspects useless, such as a fleet for moving troops or a Flight spell, which will make units slower than when moving on roads.
If this system was taken from Caster of magic, then why wasn't it taken completely?? There, at least they tried to adjust this issue and adjust the balance.

I just can't figure out what the idea behind all these "genius" speed changes is. To make the game more dynamic? it will turn from strategy to arcade.

[XenoReaver]

Originally posted by zlobno:

Modding only takes a few minutes?

Depends on what you're modding, changing unit speed for all units will just take a few minutes.

Originally posted by zlobno:

All Spell effects (spells for movement speed have also been changed)

This will require knowledge of scripting and if you don't know scripting (like myself) it can take quite some time to make changes work.

Originally posted by zlobno:

A few things that will most likely not be so easy to adjust:
- The size of the battlefield and the deployment of units
- The configuration of the castle walls is also different from the original
- After the outpost turns into a village, a swordsman appears there

I'm not sure if these things can be easily changed "in a fewf minutes"

These three things.
Battlefield Size - likely not changeable without learning how to use Unity.
Castle Walls - Depends on what you're changing but if it has to do with their display on the battlefield then yeah learning to use Unity.
Swordsman - Changing this would probably affect the unit you start the game with too but would probably take a few minutes.

[Zzyl_tsw]

One point not mentionned here is that original MoM uses square to move, while the new one uses Hex.

[4xNoob]

This is another point. I perfectly understand why this was done, because the developers had ready-made developments from the Thea, and it was easier to take a ready-made hex based map than to make a square based map again.
As for the combat system, judging by the comments on the streams and videos, some players say that the combat system is not very complex compared to, for example, the Age of Wonders.
And again returning to the speed of movement, if the units are moving faster, but the size of the battlefield and the distance between the armies has increased by only 2 hexes, then some kind of protective mechanisms or mechanics should be present (although movement through hexes is slightly slower than movement through squares because there is no diagonal movement in hexes) because units will simply run faster to the enemy and it will not look much like a tactic. But if introduce additional mechanics (for example, zones of control or flank attacks) it will be a completely different game, of course.

[[*~MAJA~*] Mandragoron]

Its just sad to read the devs. changed core mechanics of the original...

[Mr Eos]

Looks like a good place to drop this.

it's along the same lines. But I'm questioning the move to hexagon, instead of keeping it square tiles.

All you really had to do was make it take 2 movement points to move diagonal to solve the X+Y movement = double the movment issue. OR even give each unit a temporary memory, of a .5 movement penalty that comes into play if they move diagonally. Make a Diagonal move take 1.5 moves to make. .5 becomes a bonus for next round to make another diagonal + straight move, Lots of options.

OR IMO. Don't even worry about it, Cause it's not unbalanced if everyone has access to the mechanic.

I figure that's the main reason everything keeps trying to go to hexagon tiles? Because it's more circular?


Does this also mean that you're limiting the number of units that can exist on a tile?]





Should have probably read 2 post up first.

Note: Primary point being made here is. Was Civilization and all these other games moving to hexagon an improvement that people prefer? Or are they just putting up with it because it was "Shiny". I fall into the "Shiny" demographic. I'm over the hexagon.

I won't not buy the game over the issue. But I just question where the pied piper is going this case.




A Greater point to be made is, why we haven't switched over to an Open movement system like that seen in the Total War games. So that we can play on globes instead of flat maps.

The only way I see to do that is to make it triangle tiles. or ditch the tiles.

TBS games need a globe to play on. That's the next big upgrade for a Civilization type game. Because when they provide a globe. They might be able to make a Civilization game that doesn't end at building a rocket.

[XenoReaver]

Clearly this is the reason for the change.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thOifuHs6eY

[roland.johansen]

Originally posted by XenoReaver:

Clearly this is the reason for the change.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thOifuHs6eY

[4xNoob]

Originally posted by Mr Eos:

All you really had to do was make it take 2 movement points to move diagonal to solve the X+Y movement = double the movment issue. OR even give each unit a temporary memory, of a .5 movement penalty that comes into play if they move diagonally. Make a Diagonal move take 1.5 moves to make. .5 becomes a bonus for next round to make another diagonal + straight move, Lots of options.

Original MoM already has it, diagonal moves cost 0.5 more points. In fact, there was no reason to double unit's speed . Moreover, I don’t understand why the Settlers tripled their speed...

[Mr Eos]

That video made a critical error though.

Its saying that the Hexagon was indivisible.

But it's made up of triangles. So that would make Triangles the Best.

There is a reason 3D computer models use triangles. It's the most efficient at creating any shape.