Starting Ships - Federation

[volbound1700]

I feel like this needs to be addressed in updates or DLC.

You only start with the Miranda Class and I was able to research the Intrepid Class later on but that is the only two classes you start with.

They should at least add a more expensive, more power Excelsior Class to compare with Miranda and maybe the Ambassador Class.

Have Nebula, Galaxy, and other classes available later on for research. I don't want every class of ship because it would be overwhelming but more than what is listed would be nice.

[volbound1700]

Also don't get me wrong, I have over 100 technologies so far (got the achievement, playing this game on ironman if you want notes) and I only have two ship classes: Miranda and Intrepid.

[Falaris]

How about making your own ships in the ship designer?

[volbound1700]

Originally posted by Falaris:

How about making your own ships in the ship designer?

Doesn't work because you make them off the skins of the existing ships so I would only have multiple Mirandas.

Issue is the tech. Even in Stellaris, I am able to get Cruiser and Battleship classes by now. They got them too far spread out and it makes sense with a more developed start to at least have two classes. I am thinking Miranda and Excelsior at start makes the most sense.

[phily]

Ambassador class/Enterprise-C should have been a starting science ship that you can send to investigate Khitomer.

[Ace]

Do you need to research specific things to get the other ships? I have been playing federation for some time now and still only have Miranda and Intrepid. It seems the research choices are random?

[volbound1700]

Originally posted by Ace:

Do you need to research specific things to get the other ships? I have been playing federation for some time now and still only have Miranda and Intrepid. It seems the research choices are random?

I have the Excelsior now in that game but I am over 2 hours into the game. You can get Defiant by completing Enterprise mission. If you have the preorder bonus, you can also get the California class but it really isn't a warship but rather just a more combat effective scout.

Ships are weak in this game, I hope they address in patch (or someone does in Mods).

I don't want to have 10 or so classes at a time and be constantly updating like in New Horizon but more than 1 would be nice.

I think Excelsior should be available at start based on lore or be very early tech pickup and should be in the spot held by Intrepid. Intrepid can be made later on in tech.

If considering subs for the ship classes in Stellaris with Federation, I would go with following:

Corvette - Miranda
Destroyer - Excelsior
Frigate - Intrepid and Defiant
Cruiser - Nebula
Battleship - Galaxy and Sovereign
Oberth - Scout


I would stick those main ones. Sure you could add Steamrunner, Akari, Prometheus, and tons of other classes but I think the list above captures the main ones utilized.

I also left out Ambassador because you just don't see it very often in the series.

I say start Federation with Miranda and Excelsior both and have others researched. Nebula would be the first one you should be able to research followed by Galaxy, Intrepid, Defiant, and then Sovereign.

I like the idea of Defiant and Sovereign only being unlockable via mission tree. I think a DS9-type arc with the Defiant should be in the Federation Mission Tree along with a Dominion War end game.

[Nighthaunt]

To be fair the intrepid was never designed as a cruiser, lacks the large crew that typifies federation cruisers.

[volbound1700]

Originally posted by Nighthaunt:

To be fair the intrepid was never designed as a cruiser, lacks the large crew that typifies federation cruisers.

That is why we are getting it so early. They are just following the Stellaris format and not Star Trek lore so we get Intrepid before the Excelsior (which came available in late Kirk era) and the Galaxy Class. Intrepid was a far more advanced design than either and if you are going on lore, should come after both.

The gap between getting new ships on here is brutal. I have been playing a game where I just took 3/4 of the map and have been playing for 4 hours and the Galaxy Class just became available. By the time you are getting ships, the game is effectively over.

[marshaladmiralq]

Originally posted by Nighthaunt:

To be fair the intrepid was never designed as a cruiser, lacks the large crew that typifies federation cruisers.

Uits a light cruiser. note the Enterprise A had a crew of 300 and Itnerprid goes 150 and EA was a heavy cruiser

[indi]

Are Nebula and Defiant actual ships? They haven't shown up for me yet and gotten quite far into the game

[volbound1700]

I don't think Nebulas are in the game. Defiant Class is available if you complete all of the TNG crew missions

[weregobbie]

Technically, the Excelsior is a cruiser.
I'd propose adding a few other ships in between the way they have the ships. Intrepid class is also a cruiser, being essentially a more modern excelsior replacement. (Not overly more powerful, just with newer technology. she's like...a sister ship filling the same role plus patrol.)

The issue with this game is it is trying to be both the same and different from Stellaris, and not sure which ship IP's to use, even if it is the TNG era. TMP era ships ARE in TNG so lets try and brainstorm a better way to use all ship designs from various trek IP's.

TMP Era ships that could be used in TNG era:
Early: Miranda (which is cool, and has several variants to be listed and is in the game currently), Soyuz (Variant to miranda), Saratoga (Variant to miranda), Constellation, and Constitution.

My suggestion for early TNG, would say to go back to the three hull variant options for the ship designs (Interceptor, Picket, and missile boat.) Miranda and it's variants can be used in this regard. Like Missile boat would be the miranda, interceptor would be soyuz, and picket would be saratoga for instance. Could even add a forth special hull for special jobs, like a repair ship. (the constellation hull would work for this.)

Middle: Excelsior, Ambassador, New Orleans, Curry, and Cheyenne.
Additional upgrades can lead to special ships like the Lakota variant if you really want that.
You could infact add a ton of hull designs based upon the old Stellaris ship variants. Just instead of choosing the type of hull additions, you're just given a pre-designed ship. A ship with an artillery hull piece, would just be a New Orleans with two Artillery hulls. Excelsior would be a Gun ship and torpedo hull. Ect. Ect.

Late: Galaxy, Intrepid, Defiant, Saber, Steamrunner, Sovereign, Akira, Nebula, Prometheus, Etc. Now, as you hit certain age presets, and with the hull designs being researched, you just are given new ship designs in those classes.

Saber for instance would be a destroyer added later on. It would have better stats, but have the same slots as the older versions of that class. Instead of giving the player customization, just be given the class. That would further differ the game from stellaris.

I'd also rename the class designs: removing corvette name and just sticking with Frigate, Destroyer, Cruiser, Add Heavy Cruiser, and then Dreadnought or Battleship (depending on which faction you are.) (Corvette would be frigates, so nothing REALLY changes...)

Ship classes expanded (just to bring in far more names to fill any or all niches)
Frigates: Miranda, Saratoga, Soyuz, Okinawa (SFC GAME), Akula, Belknap (FASA/COMICS), Constitution, and Loknar (FASA).

Destroyers: Freedom, Constellation, Federation, Saber, Defiant and Constellation.

Cruisers: Excelsior, Curry, Intrepid, Cheyenne, Norway, New Orleans, and Steamrunner.

Heavy Cruisers: Ambassador, Lakota (excelsior refit), Akira, Luna, and Prometheus.

Dreadnoughts: Galaxy, Sovereign, Nebula, Excalibur (STO), and Manticore (STO).

So it isn't hard to come up with ships to put into the game and come up with the solutions to adding hull ideas. STO is a star trek IP, so really, any of those designs can be filled in. I'd even say they should use a lot of the Romulan and Klingon designs. It just requires a lot of discussions between different game companies and the semi fractured nature of trek ownership still is a bit of a hassle. Anyways, that is my idea.

[Guvnor Gav]

Bought the game last night and loving it already. Most complaints about available ships kind of proves a point I made regarding STO, the Federation has always been over saturated with ship classes unlike the KDF and Romulans who rarely bring out new classes because older ones get upgraded. In the TNG period of shows and movies, there were more than 10 ship classes, more if you include those only referenced and those that appear in Lower Decks. The KDF had about 4, Romulans had about 3. Everyone has their favourite Fed ship, but there are just too many to include.

[corestandeven]

Given the shows are prominently from a Federation viewpoint this is probably more why there are so many ship types. I have to slightly side with Nimble Giant for not including them all, as they would have to add fill out all the Klingon, Romulan and Cardassian factions with many non-canon ships (although other games have done that for years and generally they look good). My issue, as with some others, is that (again) the devs have dropped the ball on following ST lore.

The Intrepid in no way came out BEFORE the Excelsior. The Defiant came out AFTER the Galaxy class. However, we all know the reason for this: the Devs had to make all this fit with the Stellaris model, so screw ST lore.

[weregobbie]

Originally posted by Guvnor Gav:

Bought the game last night and loving it already. Most complaints about available ships kind of proves a point I made regarding STO, the Federation has always been over saturated with ship classes unlike the KDF and Romulans who rarely bring out new classes because older ones get upgraded. In the TNG period of shows and movies, there were more than 10 ship classes, more if you include those only referenced and those that appear in Lower Decks. The KDF had about 4, Romulans had about 3. Everyone has their favourite Fed ship, but there are just too many to include.

Other games and other non-canon sources have done an excellent job in fleshing out the other factions ships. FASA had TONS of designs, both TOS and TMP. It is just a viewpoint of trek and a money issue on creating other faction ship assets.