Hmmm. How to roleplay the Cardies?

[Scrogdog]

I'm an older (and thus TOS) kind of guy.

Sure, I watched DS9. Liked lot of it, even. Except for the last season and perhaps the second half of the season before that. Too much "gods and demons" and not enough "science fiction" in the traditional sense.

Here's how I see things in terms of the strategic scope of the game.

Federation: Goody two-shoes alliance builders.

Klingon: Proud warriors with many traditions.

Romulan: Spies, wordsmith con-artists and assassins.

Cards? Hmmm... kinda like the Klingons except bigger B holes?

There must be something better than 'like the klingons' I'm just not thinking of it. :)

[Anguille]

And the British empire invented the concentration camps when they were fighting the Boers in South Africa.

[volbound1700]

I will point some items out in defense of the British Empire (and I am not from the UK):

1. British were the first country to truly outlaw slavery and not only did they outlaw it in the early 19th Century, they utilized their navy to enforce it

2. British pretty much let most of their colonies go after World War II without a fight. Most of the rest of the nations did not (see France or Portugal as an example)

3. The areas colonized by Great Britain tend to fair better than other areas around them colonized by other Europeans. Look at Africa as an example where the former British colonies such as Tanzania, Kenya, South Africa, etc. seem to be better

4. Living in Liberia recently, UK was the first to recognize them as a nation in 1847

5. The global education system currently under use was basically invented by the British

6. British did provide infrastructure, technical, medical, and other improvements

I have lived or worked with people in former countries owned by Great Britain such as India and sure the bad is there but it isn't nearly on par with anything Nazi Germany did to anyone. In fact, UK is actually one of the better nations to be under if you had to pick a colonial overseer. France, Portugal, Dutch, Belgium (really yikes), German Empire, Italy, etc. were just as bad or worse.

Part of the reason UK had so much success in some of its colonies such as India is that the native (or semi-native) regimes were worse. UK took over India partially because of how bad the Mughal Empire was to the people of India. Similar story with Spain and the Aztecs.

I am not defending colonialism or imperialism because it was bad and genocide was involved in some instances (Native/First Americans in North America as an example) but the conversations about it are always half-baked and don't reflect the full picture. Also these area of the world were not necessarily peaceful paradises or doing good things prior to European arrival. In many ways, the Europeans only succeeded because of how bad things were in some of these regions of the world prior to them.

Human Beings, in general, cause havoc on grand scale to each other. Star Trek brings this up a lot :). If it wasn't the Europeans oppressing that area of the world, it would have been someone else.

The one silver lining of the UK and USA is that they started the entire conversation about this activity being wrong. Prior to them or their developments, we wouldn't even be having this conversation and frankly we would probably be alright with genocide or behave like Cardassians.

[volbound1700]

You also can't point out the British Empire's issues without bringing out USA's past sins (Trail of Tears for example). All nations/people have done it.

This is one thing that I love about DS9. It is realistic. The Federation has ideals but they fail to live up to them at times in Star Trek, especially when survival is at stake.

The Dominion War really puts you in a spot with Sisco. They need to win the war to survive but they are often faced with moral dilemmas that go against their ideals. That is a very realistic telling of the world today.

[butcher.8]

I'd say the Cardie's are essentially the Soviet Union in decline, the militaristic and totalitarian state got rid of God/spirituality and personal freedoms (they go hand in hand), their bellies may be full, but their spirits are empty!

[volbound1700]

Originally posted by butcher.8:

I'd say the Cardie's are essentially the Soviet Union in decline, the militaristic and totalitarian state got rid of God/spirituality and personal freedoms (they go hand in hand), their bellies may be full, but their spirits are empty!

Klingons are the Soviets :). At least for the TOS era they were.

However, I always thought the Romulans fit the USSR better. Interestingly, I read somewhere that the Klingons and Romulans were almost the same race in the TOS. For some reason, the makeup for the Klingons ended up being cheaper to apply so Klingons took on a lot of the roles the Romulans were intended to play. If not for that, the Klingons may have been a one episode only race and the Romulans would fill most of the roles the Klingons played throughout the TOS. This also explains why the Romulans had the D7 Battlecruiser.

[JimmysTheBestCop]

Yeah British banned slavery then called it colonialism. So instead of enslaving individuals they enslaved the entire nation.

You sound exactly like a Cardie lmao. Dukat literally says Al the time how Bajor is greater now cause cardasia occupied it. Lol

Britain had to let most of their colonies go cause Roosevelt wouldn't direct troops to maintain the empire like Churchill wanted.

I actually believe if Roosevelt doesn't die the atom bombs are never dropped. France and Britain colonies are completely set free. Roosevelt wanted France to free Vietnam and told Churchill repeatedly to set India free then Truman is in charge and France threatens to go commie if USA backs Vietnam freedom and Truman caved. Just like Truman caved to let Soviet Union hold onto lands it took during WW2.

Soviets had 0 power at end of WW2. The USA was supplying them with everything militarily. While the USA was literally producing enough for USA Britian and Russia to use.

Britain still forced sea faring into pressed service long after they banned slavery as well.

[butcher.8]

Originally posted by volbound1700:

Originally posted by butcher.8:

I'd say the Cardie's are essentially the Soviet Union in decline, the militaristic and totalitarian state got rid of God/spirituality and personal freedoms (they go hand in hand), their bellies may be full, but their spirits are empty!

Klingons are the Soviets :). At least for the TOS era they were.

However, I always thought the Romulans fit the USSR better. Interestingly, I read somewhere that the Klingons and Romulans were almost the same race in the TOS. For some reason, the makeup for the Klingons ended up being cheaper to apply so Klingons took on a lot of the roles the Romulans were intended to play. If not for that, the Klingons may have been a one episode only race and the Romulans would fill most of the roles the Klingons played throughout the TOS. This also explains why the Romulans had the D7 Battlecruiser.

Certainly the other three have some overlap and yes, the Romulans and Klingons were very similar in TOS. The Cardie's also have definite Nazi qualities (aka Nationalistic and Socialistic) similar to a certain modern day country in Asia honestly, with spycraft being a huge part of how they operate, almost as much as with the Romulans!

They like to hear themselves talk, they are narcissistic, highly intelligent (and know it) and arrogant, humility is not in their vocabulary. They have a rich history from before the state took over and are rightfully proud of that, but they have added nothing to it, merely taken from it.

They do have individuals that are attempting to reform them (like a certain filing clerk), but no proper movement until the ill-fated one that was defeated by the allies and the Dominion that betrayed them. Most Cardassians, like the Klingons, are too stuck in their ways, or perhaps too frightened to bring necessary change.

[volbound1700]

Originally posted by JimmysTheBestCop:

Yeah British banned slavery then called it colonialism. So instead of enslaving individuals they enslaved the entire nation.

You sound exactly like a Cardie lmao. Dukat literally says Al the time how Bajor is greater now cause cardasia occupied it. Lol

Britain had to let most of their colonies go cause Roosevelt wouldn't direct troops to maintain the empire like Churchill wanted.

I actually believe if Roosevelt doesn't die the atom bombs are never dropped. France and Britain colonies are completely set free. Roosevelt wanted France to free Vietnam and told Churchill repeatedly to set India free then Truman is in charge and France threatens to go commie if USA backs Vietnam freedom and Truman caved. Just like Truman caved to let Soviet Union hold onto lands it took during WW2.

Soviets had 0 power at end of WW2. The USA was supplying them with everything militarily. While the USA was literally producing enough for USA Britian and Russia to use.

Britain still forced sea faring into pressed service long after they banned slavery as well.

There is so much wrong with everything in this post that it makes my head hurt. Soviet Union had 0 power? Wow, just wow.

At this point, I am assuming you are a troll.

[volbound1700]

Originally posted by butcher.8:

Originally posted by volbound1700:

Klingons are the Soviets :). At least for the TOS era they were.

However, I always thought the Romulans fit the USSR better. Interestingly, I read somewhere that the Klingons and Romulans were almost the same race in the TOS. For some reason, the makeup for the Klingons ended up being cheaper to apply so Klingons took on a lot of the roles the Romulans were intended to play. If not for that, the Klingons may have been a one episode only race and the Romulans would fill most of the roles the Klingons played throughout the TOS. This also explains why the Romulans had the D7 Battlecruiser.

Certainly the other three have some overlap and yes, the Romulans and Klingons were very similar in TOS. The Cardie's also have definite Nazi qualities (aka Nationalistic and Socialistic) similar to a certain modern day country in Asia honestly, with spycraft being a huge part of how they operate, almost as much as with the Romulans!

They like to hear themselves talk, they are narcissistic, highly intelligent (and know it) and arrogant, humility is not in their vocabulary. They have a rich history from before the state took over and are rightfully proud of that, but they have added nothing to it, merely taken from it.

They do have individuals that are attempting to reform them (like a certain filing clerk), but no proper movement until the ill-fated one that was defeated by the allies and the Dominion that betrayed them. Most Cardassians, like the Klingons, are too stuck in their ways, or perhaps too frightened to bring necessary change.

Agree. Cardassia doesn't have the exact moment for moment history of the Nazis but they were definitely intended to represent and were inspired by the Nazis with regard to their government, the anger about the loss of power, etc.

Cardassia will be massively changed after the Dominion War but this has never been explored correctly in the Star Trek Universe. I think they go more of a peaceful route/lessons-learned if you go off how things were on the last episode of DS9.

Most of the members of the old regime are basically dead at that point.

[Sinjen Blackstar]

I could see post Dominion war Cardassia turning out like Japan after WWII. They would only be allowed a defensive military. I see the Federation preventing them from being harshly punished overall. I think the Federation would probably help rebuild Cardassian infrastructure and influence their new political system. The Dominion might give some aid as part of a peace treaty and perhaps the release of the founder that is currently held in Federation custody.

[volbound1700]

Originally posted by Sinjen Blackstar:

I could see post Dominion war Cardassia turning out like Japan after WWII. They would only be allowed a defensive military. I see the Federation preventing them from being harshly punished overall. I think the Federation would probably help rebuild Cardassian infrastructure and influence their new political system. The Dominion might give some aid as part of a peace treaty and perhaps the release of the founder that is currently held in Federation custody.

I was thinking the same. I even see Cardassia possibly joining the Federation. I see DS9 as a steady decline of Cardassia. They start out somewhat militarily strong but banged up from the defeat with Bajor and other wars (also Marquis insurgency). They then lose the Obsidion order attacking the Dominion. The old regime is overthrown for a civilian government. Then Cardassia, while weakened with regime change and other chaos, is invading in a surprise attack by the Klingons. Klingons overrun (it seems like) a significant portion of Cardassia but are stopped at the Home World. Then you got Cardassia joining the Dominion. Seems like Dominion ramps them back up but by the end of the war, they would be in absolute ruins.

They were a power, and this can be shown even in the Dominion War's last battle where the Cardassian Fleet switching sides is a decisive factor.

[JimmysTheBestCop]

It doesn't matter a child destroyed all the dilithium in the entire galaxy when he got upset.

Great job Discovery

[Neme]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CHGMelRS3Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hn_W77t-GUQ

[kwrstack]

Originally posted by WolfTooth:

Originally posted by Pookie101:

Actually the destruction of Romulus is in the prime timeline in Star trek. Referenced in Picard(Shivers in horror at how bad seasons 1&2 were) and Discovery's 32nd century

Also referenced in STO. So it's covered in both canon AND STO. Can't get much better than that...

I liked the suggestion in STO that it may have actually been an attack by Species 8472 or the Iconians. Would account for the bizarreness of a supernova that blasts into subspace, conveniently resurfaces on an inhabited world, and somehow remains concentrated enough to be consumed entirely by an artificial singularity.

[WolfTooth]

Originally posted by kwrstack:

Originally posted by WolfTooth:

Also referenced in STO. So it's covered in both canon AND STO. Can't get much better than that...

I liked the suggestion in STO that it may have actually been an attack by Species 8472 or the Iconians. Would account for the bizarreness of a supernova that blasts into subspace, conveniently resurfaces on an inhabited world, and somehow remains concentrated enough to be consumed entirely by an artificial singularity.

In STO it was very much 100% the Iconians.