AI 'art'?

[TrashtheEgo]

Does this game use AI generated images during some of the event screens or elsewhere?

[[SF] MooMan]

what makes you say that?

[TrashtheEgo]

Much of the building architecture I've seen is all wrong. The angles that walls and joints and whatnot come together in the images can make no logical sense. The over-saturated and hazy style used in a lot of them is also often intentionally used to hide AI generation because of the unnatural manner things get combined, or end up half formed in the background.

[Haohmaru]

Hmmm if it did then it wouldn’t be allowed to be sold on steam.

[Cesium Rainbow]

It's clearly AI art. Alot of writing on signage show jumbled nonsense letters. Cars are asymmetrical in no way that makes any sense, including wheels that can almost be backwards\forwards up to the middle of the car. There's physically impossible geometry in most objects\buildings\scenery if you look close. It's not a case of a bad artist; the color palettes are great and well saturated and the art nails a certain vibe as long as you don't look at the details. It's that colorful impressionist style with lines that don't line up that AI gen'd art is known for.

The only thing stopping me from buying it rn.

[mariusz.szulc]

The event illustrations are the only place in the game where we are using parts of AI generated images. All of those where created in MidJourney a while back, when Steam didn't have any official stand on the image generation yet. All of the images where overpainted in huge parts by me. Back then MidJourney didn't support wider aspect ratios, so I had to paint in a bunch of stuff on the sides, play around with the colours and textures, and remove some really obvious nonsense. So there's no art in there that was just straight out of the box done by AI without our touch. The decision to include AI in our process was made with good intentions imho. Previously we were gonna have just 2-3 generic looking artworks that would represent all the different events, but they would't really show anything specific. Just an empty road in a canyon, some random highway etc. We just didn't have the budget and time to do many of those ourselves. When we played around with AI, we found out that we can basically create something fitting to all of the different event scenarios in the same amount of time we would do those 3 illustrations from scratch, so we went for it.

[Tam]

Originally posted by mariusz.szulc:

The event illustrations are the only place in the game where we are using parts of AI generated images. All of those where created in MidJourney a while back, when Steam didn't have any official stand on the image generation yet. All of the images where overpainted in huge parts by me. Back then MidJourney didn't support wider aspect ratios, so I had to paint in a bunch of stuff on the sides, play around with the colours and textures, and remove some really obvious nonsense. So there's no art in there that was just straight out of the box done by AI without our touch. The decision to include AI in our process was made with good intentions imho. Previously we were gonna have just 2-3 generic looking artworks that would represent all the different events, but they would't really show anything specific. Just an empty road in a canyon, some random highway etc. We just didn't have the budget and time to do many of those ourselves. When we played around with AI, we found out that we can basically create something fitting to all of the different event scenarios in the same amount of time we would do those 3 illustrations from scratch, so we went for it.

Personally I would rather have 2-3 generic looking artworks than 100 AI generated pictures.
I had an interest in this game as the gameplay seems pretty interesting but I will not buy anything that has AI generated assets in it.

[[SF] MooMan]

Originally posted by Tam:

Originally posted by mariusz.szulc:

The event illustrations are the only place in the game where we are using parts of AI generated images. All of those where created in MidJourney a while back, when Steam didn't have any official stand on the image generation yet. All of the images where overpainted in huge parts by me. Back then MidJourney didn't support wider aspect ratios, so I had to paint in a bunch of stuff on the sides, play around with the colours and textures, and remove some really obvious nonsense. So there's no art in there that was just straight out of the box done by AI without our touch. The decision to include AI in our process was made with good intentions imho. Previously we were gonna have just 2-3 generic looking artworks that would represent all the different events, but they would't really show anything specific. Just an empty road in a canyon, some random highway etc. We just didn't have the budget and time to do many of those ourselves. When we played around with AI, we found out that we can basically create something fitting to all of the different event scenarios in the same amount of time we would do those 3 illustrations from scratch, so we went for it.

Personally I would rather have 2-3 generic looking artworks than 100 AI generated pictures.
I had an interest in this game as the gameplay seems pretty interesting but I will not buy anything that has AI generated assets in it.

No one cares kid.

[TrashtheEgo]

Originally posted by SF MooMan:

Originally posted by Tam:

Personally I would rather have 2-3 generic looking artworks than 100 AI generated pictures.
I had an interest in this game as the gameplay seems pretty interesting but I will not buy anything that has AI generated assets in it.

No one cares kid.

If you actually understood Steam's rules in regards to AI art in games sold on their storefront and why they are the way they are, you probably would care. Once precedent is put into place legally in regards to midjourney and their ilk's flagrant abuse of copyright laws, Steam will vanish these games as quickly as possible to avoid any liability. And you're not going to get a refund.

And then there's just the general moral stance of it all. Some people have a spine and don't really enjoy the thought of spending money on a product that has AI generated images in it. Images derived from tools that have plagiarized and stolen the work of others to function like they do. Not to mention that the 'art' looks like ♥♥♥♥. It's kinda immersion breaking when tires are floating off their axles and buildings have no logic to their architecture.

But yeah, chime in with the 'no one cares' apathy. You apparently care enough to reply though of course.

[The Lost Cake]

If it's about steam's stance then sure you've got a point but you can't seriously be ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ on an indie developer from a developing country for using AI art and think you have some sort of moral high ground?

[Doc Maccinakloutos]

Originally posted by The Lost Cake:

If it's about steam's stance then sure you've got a point but you can't seriously be ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ on an indie developer from a developing country for using AI art and think you have some sort of moral high ground?

If you care about the future of artists and are against website scrapping and data theft, it's pretty easy... then again you litterally have to opt out of everything nowadays, even unity wants to scrape your hard drive.
as a matter of fact they even want devs to PAY for people to play their games.
"AI" are all capitalistic projects without any morale.

that's why people fight against it. not the extra fingers and the funky architecture, it's about the mass theft of private artworks that fuels these algorythms (they are ai's only by name, as they only process and remix data without any creative thoughts) and the cryptobros/techbros who are doing shady stuff behind them.

again the dev said it was used as a baseline, which cuts 10-12 hours of composition; that's something usefull.

[TrashtheEgo]

Originally posted by The Lost Cake:

If it's about steam's stance then sure you've got a point but you can't seriously be ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ on an indie developer from a developing country for using AI art and think you have some sort of moral high ground?

I'll hold it against anyone utilizing AI image generation in a commercial product. I don't care who they are or where they're from. This isn't a stepping stone tool for the impoverished, it's a racket that some techbros sell access to to allow you to side-step paying real artists. And it'll always stand out and look like ♥♥♥♥. Nothing utilizing these programs will age well.

If this was a stop-gap during EA, that's fine. But it's not in EA anymore, get it out of the game. I'll ♥♥♥♥ on anyone over this topic because of who it supports and what it's in the process of disenfranchising if it becomes the norm. Plenty of other indie developers from all over the world have no issues avoiding its use.

[draconian139]

Personally I'm pretty fond of AI art, Stable Diffusion can perform quite well, can be tailored to custom models, and it's fun to mess around with.

[ELRIX]

Originally posted by TrashtheEgo:

Originally posted by The Lost Cake:

If it's about steam's stance then sure you've got a point but you can't seriously be ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ on an indie developer from a developing country for using AI art and think you have some sort of moral high ground?

I'll hold it against anyone utilizing AI image generation in a commercial product. I don't care who they are or where they're from. This isn't a stepping stone tool for the impoverished, it's a racket that some techbros sell access to to allow you to side-step paying real artists. And it'll always stand out and look like ♥♥♥♥. Nothing utilizing these programs will age well.

If this was a stop-gap during EA, that's fine. But it's not in EA anymore, get it out of the game. I'll ♥♥♥♥ on anyone over this topic because of who it supports and what it's in the process of disenfranchising if it becomes the norm. Plenty of other indie developers from all over the world have no issues avoiding its use.

Those 'other indie devs' are going to learn sooner or later that AI will be used as a power tool to assist them. Whether we like it or not, AI tech will be integrated into everything eventually. These 'other indie devs' have no issues avoiding its use because they would have issues if they use them. Because people like you. Deep down, they know they are forced to cut their efficiency down thanks to being afraid of being cancelled.

If these AI arts always look ♥♥♥♥ like you said, then why are you this bothered? Aren't people are just going to stop using them if they look ♥♥♥♥? Why are we still using them?
If you just don't want bad arts and only want better AI arts, please be patient, wait 1 or 2 more years. It's growing, it's evolving. Don't you worry, you will stop noticing eventually. Some parts or elements might be difficult to fix but we're getting there. I can't even imagine we're at this level of quality last year. (I know because I've been studying AI art tech a lot since the beginning, I even bought a new PC for this purpose only).

You will still see ♥♥♥♥♥♥ AI generated images, yes. It won't go, those are lazy products. You can hate on them. I hate them too. I agree with you. I won't buy those stuff too. But your stance on holding it against anyone utilizing AI image generation in a commercial product is too generalized. It's a pretty case by case issue.

I mean, in the end, if you really are worried about the moral ground of AI and worried about human artists future. You could start buying more of their hand-drawn arts, like what I regularly do. But for me, it's not about me having 'good moral' standards. It's because I want to have a hand-drawn arts for my characters. I'm pretty sure they would appreciate your real financial support. Many artists have already started using it anyway to assist them to work faster and more efficiently. It has reached to a point where some of them are not distinguishable anymore. Only those who worked long enough with AI art tech that could spot the very subtle signs of AI assisted works.

To make it clear:
I'm not saying that we should stop hiring/using purely hand-drawn art or the art itself will be lost, it will not. Just like how I like to order a shikishi arts from some artist because I like the feel of my charcters being drawn on a physical canvas. Or just like how I still commissioned my artist friends for their hand-drawn arts for my projects regularly even though I can already make them myself with AI assistance because I want to and I have the money to do so. I want to make a point that it is unfair of us to bash a dev NOT creating a game that sells artwork assets as their main sell point purely on this issue.

For Death Roads: Tournament, if we spot a bad optimization of AI art tech like the ones you mentioned. We can bring it up, just like what you did here. You mentioned the problems, the joints, angles, and such. Maybe dev could improve on those things and fix them if it's a priority fix? Things could get better instead of bashing them for using a tool that everyone will be using in under a decade?

[Cesium Rainbow]

Originally posted by mariusz.szulc:

The event illustrations are the only place in the game where we are using parts of AI generated images. All of those where created in MidJourney a while back, when Steam didn't have any official stand on the image generation yet. All of the images where overpainted in huge parts by me. Back then MidJourney didn't support wider aspect ratios, so I had to paint in a bunch of stuff on the sides, play around with the colours and textures, and remove some really obvious nonsense. So there's no art in there that was just straight out of the box done by AI without our touch. The decision to include AI in our process was made with good intentions imho. Previously we were gonna have just 2-3 generic looking artworks that would represent all the different events, but they would't really show anything specific. Just an empty road in a canyon, some random highway etc. We just didn't have the budget and time to do many of those ourselves. When we played around with AI, we found out that we can basically create something fitting to all of the different event scenarios in the same amount of time we would do those 3 illustrations from scratch, so we went for it.

I see no problem with it as long as it's a placeholder. You and every dev will soon be finding yourselves in retail channels that have slammed the door shut in order to avoid getting their panties sued off. I also personally like the in-game art I've seen but I don't want Steam following a court mandated order that your game has to be deleted from my library.

Your judgement call of course, but to me, losing some of my game's value by removing art is preferable to being stuck with an unsellable game. And I'm an example of a current sale not made because of that possibility.

[Notch]

Originally posted by Tam:

Originally posted by mariusz.szulc:

The event illustrations are the only place in the game where we are using parts of AI generated images. All of those where created in MidJourney a while back, when Steam didn't have any official stand on the image generation yet. All of the images where overpainted in huge parts by me. Back then MidJourney didn't support wider aspect ratios, so I had to paint in a bunch of stuff on the sides, play around with the colours and textures, and remove some really obvious nonsense. So there's no art in there that was just straight out of the box done by AI without our touch. The decision to include AI in our process was made with good intentions imho. Previously we were gonna have just 2-3 generic looking artworks that would represent all the different events, but they would't really show anything specific. Just an empty road in a canyon, some random highway etc. We just didn't have the budget and time to do many of those ourselves. When we played around with AI, we found out that we can basically create something fitting to all of the different event scenarios in the same amount of time we would do those 3 illustrations from scratch, so we went for it.

Personally I would rather have 2-3 generic looking artworks than 100 AI generated pictures.
I had an interest in this game as the gameplay seems pretty interesting but I will not buy anything that has AI generated assets in it.

Good, I hope you stick to that in the future, because, soon you won't be buying much. Love luddites who want to live in the past.