underpowered classes?

[Serulin]

Took me forever to beat the second map with the monk "balance" class and now trying out chaos for the third map, it is just too slow in my opinion for the pay off. Adding draconic damage which your basic spell only affects 1 minion is kinda bad. Most enemy units don't have that much HP. Deal 3 damage would kill most and the poison archer deals that, also kills if not enough and adds a poison to the enemy hand for 1 more mana. poison reduces enemy tempo while it feels like everything chaos has reduces your own tempo. The 1 drop should be a 1/2 for base, even then the pirate pig is better, the shroom is better for tempo, skelly has more synergy, etc.


For brawlers, it feels like pirates are better brawlers, when you get a few trinkets. Their focus payoffs are just too slow with not enough effect. I noticed this the most when facing the ice dragon and never drawing my board clear versus his snow man summoning spell. I held the board with a full field of units, but had no payoff for doing so.

While I realize part of it could be me playing them wrong pairing them wrong with other classes, etc, but I am just so confused with these 2.

[I gurgle for Nurgle]

Poison is completely broken in this game. It goes directly in hand, it is presistent, active until mana cost is payed and activates at the start of the turn, not at the end of it, meaning it deals unavoidable damage. Why would you compare anything to it?
I find brawlers and pirates somewhat similar in terms of power (except for bucaneer). Pirates are better because we have most of them implemented (since red/war (Redcroft) campaign is avalible), while brawlers might be lacking in content atm.

[Dlanor]

Originally posted by I gurgle for Nurgle:

Poison is completely broken in this game. It goes directly in hand, it is presistent, active until mana cost is payed and activates at the start of the turn, not at the end of it, meaning it deals unavoidable damage. Why would you compare anything to it?
I find brawlers and pirates somewhat similar in terms of power (except for bucaneer). Pirates are better because we have most of them implemented (since red/war (Redcroft) campaign is avalible), while brawlers might be lacking in content atm.

I think people lose their ability to think clearly when it comes to poison. How is a 2 mana 1/2 that deals 1 "unavoidable" damage each turn until the opponent spends 1 mana broken, but the 3 mana 2/1 dual strike rush that can be upgraded to deal like 12 unavoidable damage easily somehow fair? Poison cards scale terribly with trinkets and trinkets are where all of the broken things in the game are.

Yeah, it deals 1 whole damage, if you get low on health just play a 1 mana grog which draws you a card and gives you 2 armor, or a heart mage that heals you 4 on top of adding a minion, or Stella to kill an enemy minion and put a minion on board and heal you at least 2, or a dozen other options. Or better yet, you know how you avoid poison damage? Kill the opponent because they only play weak chump minions, because you get a free partial heal after every fight.

[Serulin]

Originally posted by Bliss:

Originally posted by I gurgle for Nurgle:

Poison is completely broken in this game. It goes directly in hand, it is presistent, active until mana cost is payed and activates at the start of the turn, not at the end of it, meaning it deals unavoidable damage. Why would you compare anything to it?
I find brawlers and pirates somewhat similar in terms of power (except for bucaneer). Pirates are better because we have most of them implemented (since red/war (Redcroft) campaign is avalible), while brawlers might be lacking in content atm.

I think people lose their ability to think clearly when it comes to poison. How is a 2 mana 1/2 that deals 1 "unavoidable" damage each turn until the opponent spends 1 mana broken, but the 3 mana 2/1 dual strike rush that can be upgraded to deal like 12 unavoidable damage easily somehow fair? Poison cards scale terribly with trinkets and trinkets are where all of the broken things in the game are.

Yeah, it deals 1 whole damage, if you get low on health just play a 1 mana grog which draws you a card and gives you 2 armor, or a heart mage that heals you 4 on top of adding a minion, or Stella to kill an enemy minion and put a minion on board and heal you at least 2, or a dozen other options. Or better yet, you know how you avoid poison damage? Kill the opponent because they only play weak chump minions, because you get a free partial heal after every fight.

The reason poison is broekn is because AI is bad at playing around it. They immediately play poison each turn destroying their tempo. They will even do it if they won't have enough mana for another play. Got 3 mana a 3 drop and a posion card, guess what gotta get rid of that poison and pass the turn.

If you have the relic to increase all spell including poison to 2 mana then instead they never play them unless it would kill them so you can stack their hand full of poison and watch as they burn cards.

[BloodyPork]

Draconic singer thing is the worst merc imo. It's just terrible, really slow, 2 mana for 1 damage is ridiculous even if you can upgrade it because it cost too much tempo, while pirate has 1 mana deal 2 damage spell.

The strongest archetype I think is actually glimmer (assuming pvp without trinkets, relics, etc), it's not playable though ai only but the drops are overtuned, the ones with rush in particular. Poison is only good because the AI suck and always play the poison card and thus messing their tempo, but it won't be as good if they improve the ai. Cannon is probably second best archetype, just crazy tempo the 4 and in particular 5 drop is super good, once you set up it will destroy any other monster based deck. As for story mode I think bomb is the most versatile one as it has much easier time vs the control board wipe type of decks.

[ZexxCrine]

Rez is definitely the weakest out the gate.

Idk what issues tc ran into during their run but nilry feels the strongest to me.

[Serulin]

Originally posted by BloodyPork:

Draconic singer thing is the worst merc imo. It's just terrible, really slow, 2 mana for 1 damage is ridiculous even if you can upgrade it because it cost too much tempo, while pirate has 1 mana deal 2 damage spell.

The strongest archetype I think is actually glimmer (assuming pvp without trinkets, relics, etc), it's not playable though ai only but the drops are overtuned, the ones with rush in particular. Poison is only good because the AI suck and always play the poison card and thus messing their tempo, but it won't be as good if they improve the ai. Cannon is probably second best archetype, just crazy tempo the 4 and in particular 5 drop is super good, once you set up it will destroy any other monster based deck. As for story mode I think bomb is the most versatile one as it has much easier time vs the control board wipe type of decks.

Yes people looke at the 1 drops with trinket, and yes they are strong, but pirate cannons and their late game board fill type cards do their job too. Cannons are more value than just about any other spell type clear imo.

[Serulin]

Originally posted by ZexxCrine:

Rez is definitely the weakest out the gate.

Idk what issues tc ran into during their run but nilry feels the strongest to me.

Brawlers?

My problem with brawlers was just the dragon. I could not kill it fast enough before it board wiped me with its 8 mana spell that summons 4 or 5 snowmen. Then I'd just lose the value game. Didnt help that all my clears would never show up but even then snowmen resummon the little ice crystals. Finally won poisoning him to death with 2 cost poisons.

On that same boss I won first try as pirate and first try as poison and I believe mech as well. So I don't know. I thing brawler's lack of an offensice 2 drop may be the issue for me, and I think their 3 drop dual strike might just be bad even of it had dual strike by default. 2/3 windfury for 3 was a terrible starting hearthstone card now that I think of it and a lot of cards in this game are more powerful than base hearthstone.

[Serulin]

Thinking more on brawlers. They are really good at taking the board as I have said, but not at killing fast. Many of their focus payoffs just dont seem worth it as well or come too late.

Take their hero for example focus 6: attack every time a friendly unit dies. She is a 2/2 granted with swiftstrike and hothead, but a 2/2 turn 5 or 6 dies to any spell including board wipes. If she had barrier instead of hothead maybe she'd be good, as it stands, I would rather have the basic mech 2 drop and just trinket hothead. You really shouldnt have that many units dying turn 6+ other than board clears which she gets wiped anyway. You can't really keep her in your starting hand anyway unless you plan on slamming her down on curve.

The 6/6 pirate that gives +1/+1 should really be a brawler imo. It is far more needed in their kit. I get that it is neutral and all can get it, but when taking the board brawlers need access to some sort of kill potential to end the game.

Other classes get on summon effects to deal unit damage or on combat start. Brawler has an on unit death one instead, again by the time you play it, you are dealing with situations where it is not that useful considering your archetype.

[TastefulSidecar]

Monks are absurd if you get the on-death captain as your secondary. Put hothead on the 1 cost skellies and put plus 1 power on your tengu. Get all the card draw you can and the 'draw focus card' 3/3 frogs and try to play to get a huge hand of 1 costs and an upgraded hero. Try to play for a turn where you blow out the opponent by throwing one costs into them with your commander on the board hitting everytime someone dies. its infinitely better once you get her limit break card. You can do over 30 damage in one turn doing that

I will say, green's poison mechanic isnt broken, the poison arrow is. having a 3 cost spell that kills anything on the board and slows the tempo of the opponent is absurd and the entire archetype runs on that card alone

[Serulin]

Originally posted by TastefulSidecar:

Monks are absurd if you get the on-death captain as your secondary. Put hothead on the 1 cost skellies and put plus 1 power on your tengu. Get all the card draw you can and the 'draw focus card' 3/3 frogs and try to play to get a huge hand of 1 costs and an upgraded hero. Try to play for a turn where you blow out the opponent by throwing one costs into them with your commander on the board hitting everytime someone dies. its infinitely better once you get her limit break card. You can do over 30 damage in one turn doing that

I will say, green's poison mechanic isnt broken, the poison arrow is. having a 3 cost spell that kills anything on the board and slows the tempo of the opponent is absurd and the entire archetype runs on that card alone

The game has very few comeback/ clear mechanics which is why poison is good. It is good because the opponent skips turns trying to clear it rather than the actual damage the poison itself does, but again if you make poison cost 2, the enemy will only play them when they have nothing else to play and they more or less become permanent -1 hp per turn cards in the opponents hand. an upgraded pig pirate is of course a better start than poison tempo start, but you aren't always going to get the trinkets you want while poison is very reliable right off the bat.

assuming enemy first:
turn 1 play 1/2 poison with the coin
turn 2 enemy plays poison and skips turn instead of 2 drop, play second 1/2 or a 1/1 poison both and a 2/2 due to poison in enemy hand

turn 3 enemy plays second poison, maybe plays 2 drop.

enemy has lost 3 mana worth of plays, heavily lost tempo. With this you can stack your deck with a lot of value cards like late game mechs. If the enemy waited until turn 4 or 5 and played more aggressive vs shrooms of course you'd have strong 1 drops, but they'd have a chance at the tempo game.

I like to combine posion with mechs since they have strong value units and good late game.

It is just a very reliable way to ignore enemy mechanics because the AI panics and plays poison rather than playing up to their strengths. I don't have to counter the enemy or worry about their draw or removal, they want to play those poisons out of their hand so badly, they forget about anything else.

[Ryvaku]

I thought they were underpowered as well or at least one was, but often playing a bit more. I think all the current mercs are fine as they are. I'm clearing hard right now.

[Serulin]

Originally posted by Ryvaku:

I thought they were underpowered as well or at least one was, but often playing a bit more. I think all the current mercs are fine as they are. I'm clearing hard right now.

what makes Rez good?

[Ryvaku]

Originally posted by Serulin:

Originally posted by Ryvaku:

I thought they were underpowered as well or at least one was, but often playing a bit more. I think all the current mercs are fine as they are. I'm clearing hard right now.

what makes Rez good?

Spells. Basically not needing to touch your opponent with sheer force like the others.
Serpent Song, Concert Craze and Regis Ribit is what I go with.

Saving Serpent Songs after Craze is used up and using her special when I need to finish a fight. I like it now.

Nature merc relic makes everything easy. Arrow one.

[Serulin]

but like the spell kills 1 unit for rather high cost. trinketted 1 or 2 drops kill a unit and are basically unharmed on the board compared to using a 1 off spell. High health enemy minions at least in normal are rather rare so buffing up serpent song is rather overkill. If it maybe chained to a unit, then maybe I could see it being worth it, but I just don't get her class. I don't see the payoff compared to mech value, or pirate swarm, or poison control.

[PokerusFreak]

brawler is really reliant on one of two trinkets imo: when a unit died, gain armor trinket, or the white belt that gives another brawler +1 attack when a brawler dies. Their decks rely heavily on having one of those two things, and contenders. as long as units are dying on your side of the board, contenders will absolutely ruin enemy health bars. Just use hotheaded units to clear in front of contenders so they can slap the enemy health bar, and especially with white belt they get huge damage really really fast.