the line between "inspired by" and "ripping off"

[Psymon²]

disclaimer, i'm not claiming I'm right, just giving my perspective, i welcome you to disagree (or agree, whatever 😀)

when i first saw this, i thought it was a mod for hollow knight.
or i thought the hollow knight devs had made a new game.
then i found out its a completely separate team who were "inspired by" hollow knight, among other games.

as such, i feel this game has crossed over into the "ripping off" territory.
edit: i do NOT mean "inferior quality" or "poor imitation", only "has mostly stolen the look", see here

now, that doesn't mean the work done to make this game isn't impressive.
they've done a hell of a good job and it looks good.

if this came out before hollow knight, the story would be the other way around, accusing hollow knight of ripping this off.

I'll be keeping an eye on this, cuz i did like me some hollow knight, so wouldn't mind more of similar.

[FireShark]

HK fanboys are some of the most insufferable hipsters. When Souls-like started appearing everywhere no Souls fans were crying bloody murder about "copy-offs", they were generally praising and grateful for the fact that they would get more games in a somewhat similar style.

[GsomOVER9000]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Psymon²:

...how do people repeatedly completely miss the point?!

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από williemyers215:

When I read this, from my vantage point. I see you missing the point here. This dude clearly also perceived your message as fundamentally negative and is trying to argue there is NO POINT in making this message in the first place. Everyone copies everything, and what's too much in your eyes may be too little in someone else's or vice versa. You made the claim that it isn't fundamentally impossible to evaluate this, and used this echo chamber you've created as validation? You understand why that's not correct right?

To further try and cement this. If this was day 1 with Hollow Knight and you came onto the forums writing that Hollow Knight is ripping off metroid or castlevania or whatever it would be equally uncool. This rip-off conversation goes under the lines of "if you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all".

I don't disagree with what you're fundamentally saying, I do think it's rude to call it a "rip-off" and myself, and evidently many others (based on Fireb0rn's video) think you're kind of being a jerk (he didn't use that word) when you do stuff like this. That's all. I do think if you take a moment to reflect on this, the signs are obvious. Of course if you happen to have a big ego (like most people on the internet, unfortunately) you may continue to argue with me. I understand you could throw this at me and say I have an ego, and we can ping-pong this. But then take this... I am standing against people who tell devs that their work is somehow "insulting" and "embarrassing" you are enabling them and championing them.

TLDR: Would it be cool for me to start a thread: "the line between critic and douchebag"

exactly this. thank you. hollow knight is a metroidvania and while it brings a great art style and great level design to the table, it is not original. thats not to say it ripped off of anything, but if this game is a supposed rip off of hollow knight then going by that guy's logic, hollow knight would be ripping off of castlevania and metroid

[GsomOVER9000]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από FireShark:

HK fanboys are some of the most insufferable hipsters. When Souls-like started appearing everywhere no Souls fans were crying bloody murder about "copy-offs", they were generally praising and grateful for the fact that they would get more games in a somewhat similar style.

they really need to understand that metroidvania is a genre and not something hollow knight created or even spearheaded. hollow knight is a great game but its not original by any means short of art style

besides, their arguments always range from "oh its got a house so its definitely a rip off"
i dont even understand how?? last i checked hollow knight doesnt have any rights to houses in games??

[Gov. Mandated Hallucination]

Ok high key I did not want to say this, but right when I saw this game I 1. Loved it, 2. thought they deadass ripped art from hollow knight. The spikes and the background of the third image in the stores queue look very familiar to hollow knight assets such as the radiance fight and the spikes you see around the area. I also thought that maybe the artist from Team Cherry was on a different game, but this....is a lot.

[symphony]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από GsomOVER9000:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από FireShark:

HK fanboys are some of the most insufferable hipsters. When Souls-like started appearing everywhere no Souls fans were crying bloody murder about "copy-offs", they were generally praising and grateful for the fact that they would get more games in a somewhat similar style.

they really need to understand that metroidvania is a genre and not something hollow knight created or even spearheaded. hollow knight is a great game but its not original by any means short of art style

besides, their arguments always range from "oh its got a house so its definitely a rip off"
i dont even understand how?? last i checked hollow knight doesnt have any rights to houses in games??

your reading comprehension is terrible. you really won't let this "metroidvania" point go will you lol. such a braindead argument. no one is taking you seriously when you don't even understand the topic in the first place.

[Psymon²]

this is why this thread is so depressing.

it seems some approach this looking at hollowknight vs crowsworm aesthetically.
which is what this thread is about
they LOOK nearly identical, hence "rip off".

then, there's the others who are upset about the use of the word "rip off", and make pathetic arguments (mostly strawman) against something which this thread isn't about, such as gameplay mechanics typical to metorid or castlevania.

[SymbioticGrudge]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από symphony:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από GsomOVER9000:

they really need to understand that metroidvania is a genre and not something hollow knight created or even spearheaded. hollow knight is a great game but its not original by any means short of art style

besides, their arguments always range from "oh its got a house so its definitely a rip off"
i dont even understand how?? last i checked hollow knight doesnt have any rights to houses in games??

your reading comprehension is terrible. you really won't let this "metroidvania" point go will you lol. such a braindead argument. no one is taking you seriously when you don't even understand the topic in the first place.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Psymon²:

this is why this thread is so depressing.

it seems some approach this looking at hollowknight vs crowsworm aesthetically.
which is what this thread is about
they LOOK nearly identical, hence "rip off".

then, there's the others who are upset about the use of the word "rip off", and make pathetic arguments (mostly strawman) against something which this thread isn't about, such as gameplay mechanics typical to metorid or castlevania.

NGL, looking like ya'll like give each other a few lil wanks here and there yeah?

[Leth]

Hey guys, just want to touch on this discussion briefly...

We do not mind people discussing Crowsworn (and its inspirations) AT ALL, but let's try to keep things civil.

[Psymon²]

another way of looking at this.
there's a lot of "souls like" games these days.
an example that I would not consider a "rip off" of dark souls, is Salt and Sanctuary.
Going from 3D to 2D is enough to dismiss the term, despite however many other similarities there are.
But, enter vigil.
Some might look at it and say Vigil is a "rip off" of salt and sanctuary, but to me it evidently has a unique enough look of its own that it does not deserve the term "rip off".

edit:
thanks to this video for making me aware of vigil
https://youtu.be/LtJfATY1y1c

[Psymon²]

damn, it's almost as if... i don't have to convince anyone to agree with me.
like I'm free to share my perspective on a matter and NOT imply that everyone else is wrong.
as if... it's open to discussion 🤔
we should have a name for a place like that...

[Psymon²]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από SymbioticGrudge:

m8 you are right, you're absolutely right. You couldn't be more right.
Why are we even discussing this? You are too right m8.
Should run for office how right you are.

who hurt you?
wana talk about it?

[ovni.demon]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Psymon²:

this is why this thread is so depressing.

it seems some approach this looking at hollowknight vs crowsworm aesthetically.
which is what this thread is about
they LOOK nearly identical, hence "rip off".

then, there's the others who are upset about the use of the word "rip off", and make pathetic arguments (mostly strawman) against something which this thread isn't about, such as gameplay mechanics typical to metorid or castlevania.

Except no. Rip off is a term used to describe a cheap imitation, a product made with a mentality of counterfeiting (there is different type, but basically it's always this: confuse the uninformed buyer into thinking he is buyng the original product.)

The term is now used wrongly to describe games/movies with heavy inspirations from another (which I agree is kind of bad, it's uninspired; you can even say it copy the other game) but toally different of knock off/rip off

You can say it copy the original, but there is clearly too much work to call it a rip off. Same story than enchanted portals vs Cuphead

[Psymon²]

ok, more people being pedantic over semantics.
which, btw, i enjoy. what's the point of using words if we all hold a different meaning to them?

therefore:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rip-off

rip off
- to copy or imitate blatantly or unscrupulously

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/rip-off

rip off
- a copy of something with no original features of its own

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/rip--off

rip off
- an act or instance of ripping off another or others; a theft, cheat, or swindle.
- exploitation, especially of those who cannot prevent or counter it.
- a copy or imitation.

think that's enough...
want more?
i can get you more

in before some who get too focused on absolutes, "you can't say it has NO original ideas, there's at least ONE among the MILLIONS" 🙄😒

[ovni.demon]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Psymon²:

ok, more people being pedantic over semantics.
which, btw, i enjoy. what's the point of using words if we all hold a different meaning to them?

therefore:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rip-off

rip off
- to copy or imitate blatantly or unscrupulously

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/rip-off

rip off
- a copy of something with no original features of its own

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/rip--off

rip off
- an act or instance of ripping off another or others; a theft, cheat, or swindle.
- exploitation, especially of those who cannot prevent or counter it.
- a copy or imitation.

think that's enough...
want more?
i can get you more :D:

in before some who get too focused on absolutes, "you can't say it has NO original ideas, there's at least ONE among the MILLIONS" 🙄😒

rip-off
a cheap or bad copy of something
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/fr/dictionnaire/anglais/rip-off

Rip off:
A co n, a swindle
https://www.wordreference.com/enfr/rip%20off

Rip off:
In a related meaning, a ripoff is an obviously blatant or unscrupulous copy or fake imitation.[citation needed] This is also known as a knockoff. One example is the 1988 movie Mac and Me, widely seen as a ripoff of Steven Spielberg's E.T. the Extra-Terrestrial
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ripoff

All these definition doesn't contradict the ones you put. They just had that it's imitation with the goal of deceiving. And, seriously, you find more thing poiting out that rip-off has a deceptive nature that those who doesn't.

So, again, calling Crossworm a copy, or even an imitation of HK isn't too far fetched. But calling it a rip-off is too much.

[Psymon²]

thanks for the links.

from wordreference:
rip off [sth],
rip [sth] off vtr phrasal sep slang (steal, plagiarize) copier⇒, plagier⇒ vtr
Carol accused Matthew of ripping off her work.
Carole a accusé Mathieu d'avoir copié (or: plagié) son travail.

from wikipedia:
In a related meaning, a ripoff is an obviously blatant or unscrupulous copy or fake imitation

so, like i mentioned here:

I hope this doesn't descend into "nit picking" over semantics.
That detracts from the purpose of the conversation.

I've used a word that has multiple possible meanings.
I've clarified which of those meanings I intended.
I am NOT trying to sneakily use one to trick people into thinking the other.

ok, more from wikipedia:
This is also known as a knockoff.

so, who would prefer we used that word?
seriously, WHAT WORD do you lot want me to USE so we can focus the convo on "this looks TOO SIMILAR to hollow knight"