Why are the Fremen not included in conquest?

[Machine Spirit]

Why are the Fremen not included in the conquest game mode? It seems odd to me, past topics have said there are lore reasons as to why but the first book shows how the Fremen conquer Arrakis, so surely a conquest game mode is lore friendly for the Fremen? The smugglers exclusion I can understand.

On the face of it, I think excluding arguably the most popular faction in Dune lore from a game mode like conquest is a bit stupid, so can someone help me understand it?

[chrcoluk]

Well when up against them in conquest their unit stats and buffs are much higher than other houses, so it might be to prevent the player been OP?

More likely they didnt have enough dev time.

[Katitoff]

They are, as allies you have to win over or enemies you need to fight against.

The mode is called conquest, not liberation.

[chrcoluk]

Yeah thats a very good answer actually, conquest has allying as fremen as an objective, bit off if you already are the fremen. :)

[Mordred of Fairy]

Still not a reason.
They are a playable faction, and they were a power to be considered in lore as well.
I mean, they bribe the guild to prevent sat surveillance, blind the great houses to what they are doing.

It would totally make sense to be able to play them in conquest - you can go up against all 3 houses with your "ancient sietch" in one of the outer border regions, and have the option of eradicating all 3 houses or alternatively allying with one(Leto or Armand) and eradicating the other 2(Shaddam and Uncle Vlad).

Inflated stats obviously don't need to translate into player-controlled Fremen. There would also be great perk options for them for this game-mode.

Instead of "allying the fremen" they could instead get "guild favor" depending on how many territories with spice fields they control, giving them a set of 'starting boni' similar to how you get some stuff as different faction if allied with them.

Overall, it's a pity the factions are not more asymetric, as is. Shaking things up a bit with a slightly different set of goalposts and sidequests would be desirable.

[Kōizumi Seishiro]

Doesn't make sense for a faction that is not interested in conquest in the first place

[votadc]

Lore reason. Fremen can't conquest or build. They can destroy and kill only. The lives of fremen are a mock of the lives of Free People like Atreides, Harkonnen and Corrino. We are talking about people drinking piss and never bathing... make no sense for them to behave like Romans with aqueducts and roads everywhere.

[ScythianUA]

strange that fact they are actually a playable side at all in this game...by the books they are OP as hell and owns the planet while "major powers" (houses of imperium) just playing on their backyard

[Mordred of Fairy]

How would it not make sense for them to be interested in conquest? They do have plans for Arrakis. Plans not shared among all of them, but organized enough to manage bribing CHOAM. They are considered a major player power-wise even if a lot of potential is untapped at the start of the book narrative. Leto was not looking to learn from/integrate them for nothing.
Drinking piss and never bathing in water is, on Arrakis, also true for basically any non-noble member of the great houses.
Because Water is rare and recycled. You don't waste that, even if you are not living in some rocky desert cave. Or do you think every soldier and servant gets their personal allotment of water imported regularily via the spacing guild so they can piss their name into the sand?

Even if it took a "messiah" to unify them into action, the fremen very much did end up conquesting, and quite successfully so. The fact they had to start with asymetric warfare does not diminish that feat.

That said, pointing at their humble origins and saying they have no interest in taking military control of their own home planet, but then having a house like Ekaz that lorewise had no investment in Arrakis, or the Emporer making a personal bid on it from the start against other mayor houses of the landsraadt does not make sense either.
If you deny Fremen, then it should be Atreides and Harkonnen only that make an initial bid for the planet. And they did, lorewise, not fight lenghty military campaigns against each other to settle things, either. So there's no grounds for a game, going that way.

It's not like we are asking for a new faction to be made from the ground up.
It's "take a faction that is already there, enable it for this game mode, and swap some of the goal posts" - I do struggle to understand how one can be opposed to more content, diversification and options in how to play the game based on lore argumentation that is shaky at best.

I mean, the whole conquest game-mode is not lore-accurate, or even lore-friendly. The premise of a lenthy free-for-all military conquest of Arrakis is not what happens in the source material. So if it is already essentially a what-if-sandbox, then excluding content on basis of 'lore' makes no sense - this is not a narrative that keeps close to the original story - and if it would, then Fremen inclusion for an Arrakis conquest would make more sense than half of the houses that are available.

[fuegerstef]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Mordred of Fairy:

I do struggle to understand how one can be opposed to more content, diversification and options in how to play the game ...

Look up "fanboy" and you will learn. They love their toy as it is and feel personally offended if others find anything that's isn't perfect.

They are like small children ... and if you find the replies of those people here, you can see that. ;-)

[jcmeerman]

Lore has nothing to do with it. In conquest one of the objective is to ally with the Fremen. Therefore you cannot play as the Fremen in conquest. It is a simple as that.

[Mordred of Fairy]

Diposting pertama kali oleh jcmeerman:

Lore has nothing to do with it. In conquest one of the objective is to ally with the Fremen. Therefore you cannot play as the Fremen in conquest. It is a simple as that.

That is not a valid reason.
It is one of the objectives, and those can and do change.

When I played Conquest with Atreides, one of the elimination objectives was "Defeat House Corrino" and the other "Defeat House Harkonnen".
When I played with Ecaz, there was no Corrino and the Objectives were to defeat Atreides and Harkonnen instead. *surprisedpikachu.jpg*

In fact, more varied objectives would be great. Subfactions you could pursue, working something out with the smugglers to maybe get some starting intel on surrounding territories, getting the Bene Gesserit to provide you with starting agents, paying off the guild to reduce the plot pressure on you based on spice field territories...so many options.

But wait, in fact, if you want the minimum viable approach, just add one letter and rename "Ally the Fremen" to "Rally the Fremen".
You can even have the exact same boni as before, and instead of a formal alliance it presents the support you get from local sietches that flock to your banner as you proof that you are giving attention to their grievances.

I mean, you liberate territories without claiming them for yourself, you protect other sietches, you give water to the needy, and they join your struggle. It all works out, still.
In fact, it would make a lot more sense than one of the great Houses starting an expedition with no units of their own except a huge bunch of Fremen warriors up to and including Fedaykin(and since it seems this is not a Muad'Dib timeline, that means they are the guerilla fighters, not the commandos)
(But that was already suggested in another thread, to allow players to form a Honor Guard as in Dawn of War: Soulstorm - and has nothing to do with the validity of Fremen for Conquest).

[Lord Bubba]

Has anybody heard any word from the devs if the Fremen will be included as a playable faction in Conquest Mode? I'm getting bored with just about every other faction and I enjoy playing the underdog every now and then!

[FDR'sThinkTank]

I'm hoping they create an Insurrection Mode for Renegade Factions like Fremen and Smugglers.

Obviously, the current "Fremen Friendship Meter" doesn't make any sense for the Fremen and isn't particularly sensible for the Smugglers either.

Instead, they need a system where Insurrection Factions can build up relationship with "House" factions early on very easily, but as the game mode progresses, the more they attack, oppose, or get close to Insurrection, their ability to improve alliances with a House Faction slowly evaporate.

Fremen also don't have any ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ relationship with The Spacing Guild and Purely Recycle. The Smugglers however, DO maintain a relationship with The Spacing Guild... because they don't use dangerous Space Travel like other Renegade or secretive House Factions. The Smugglers LOVE that Spacing Guild guaruntee!

Creating an Insurrection Mode to mirror the Conquest Mode will also pave the path for other Renegade Factions like the Iduali and the Southern Fundamentalist Fremen.

[Lord Bubba]

Is there any other forum I could go too to find out?

[Wyrtt]

Very simple. They have a bit different gameplay mechanics. Devs would have to adjust mode just for them. Devs are lazy to do it just for 1 faction.

Diposting pertama kali oleh jcmeerman:

Lore has nothing to do with it. In conquest one of the objective is to ally with the Fremen. Therefore you cannot play as the Fremen in conquest. It is a simple as that.

Thats some delusion you have here. In skirmish you have to ally freman as freaman as well. No problem here.