More houses

[Cybot]

I wish the game had more houses, like how the old Dune RTS had house Ordos.
The Smugglers faction just dosn't seem like a faction that would realisticly be able to stand toe to toe with the armies and wealth of House Atreides, Harkonan or Corrino.

[Kōizumi Seishiro]

Like I said, this is problem of your assumptions about the game. You started playing with a certain set of expectations that the game didn't meet. This is bad... I guess, but well, c'est la vie. If you don't like the idea that this game is based on novels, movies and boardgame, I am not really sure what are we talking about.

The problem is not with you not liking music, house Corrino and its sardukars or victory conditions, I don't care. But I feel like its simply wrong if somebody reads this forums while contemplating about playing the game and reads your strange claims like "there are no ornithopters" or "no Fremen riding worms" or some other strange claims I've seen.

Like I've already told you in some other dialogue of ours, the boardgame (and this game does great job in getting the best of it so far) starts with the premise "this is how we can explore the what ifs scenarios" of Dune universe. If things played out differently. If you don't like it - its ok, this is a matter of personal choice. But its not game's or game developers' fault. This is this type of a product. You don't play Panzer General and expect it to be totally true to WWII history after first battle. Also I guess Rome:TW players don't always expect Rome to dominate the Ancient World. Thats the whole idea of replayability. Give people some options to try out different scenarios.

So, whats the purpose of all this, mr. Black Dragon? Smearing a game you don't like b/c its not 100% true to how you read your novels? I agree that probably some aspects of the game don't make sense for you, but I feel like this is a very personal matter. Same very aspects of the game may be OK for others.

[Blackdragon]

Publicado originalmente por Kōizumi Seishiro:

Well if the fact of worshiping something doesn't prevent followers of a cult from using this "something" for their own very material and mortal (profane) means, then I rest my case here. )

It doesn't remove the fact that Fremen worship Shai-Hulud which is represented physically by the sandworms.

Publicado originalmente por Kōizumi Seishiro:

Then there is no reason entirely why Fremen cannot gather spice or use worms (as they do in novels, btw, because they pay Spacing guild with spice, its explicitly stated that they also gather it, just not with harvesters, this difference is very well represented in the game, btw.

The Fremen pay the Spacing guild for one thing only, the deviation of their satellites (to hide the terraforming agenda). They don't sell Spice to CHOAM, nor do they gather it in large enough quantities (due to the obvious lack of harvesters and refineries).

[Blackdragon]

Publicado originalmente por Kōizumi Seishiro:

Like I said, this is problem of your assumptions about the game. You started playing with a certain set of expectations that the game didn't meet. This is bad... I guess, but well, c'est la vie.

My set of expectations was that a game titled "Dune: Spice Wars" would be about wars for Spice in the universe of Frank Herbert's Dune.

However, this game is definitely not set in the DUNE universe, as despite wearing some trappings, it lacks the core tenets of DUNE. And it doesn't even have "spice wars" as spice is strictly a secondary resource here. I guess it was too much to ask.

Publicado originalmente por Kōizumi Seishiro:

If you don't like the idea that this game is based on novels, movies and boardgame

This game is NOT based on DUNE novels or movies. Boardgame I do not care about, however from little I know of it the game does not follow it either.

Now, I see you've waxed loquaciously about how it's matter of personal taste, but you've never managed to address any of my points on substance and disprove that this game contravenes numerous basic tenets of the DUNE universe. Next time, be on point, or exit the debate altogether.

[Kōizumi Seishiro]

So you don't know anything about the boardgame as well, it seems. Not to worry. But... you did watch a movie at least?

[Blackdragon]

Publicado originalmente por Kōizumi Seishiro:

So you don't know anything about the boardgame as well, it seems. Not to worry. But... you did watch a movie at least?

"Boardgame"... "as well"? So after failing to disprove the many fundamental inconsistencies this so-called "Dune game" has with both the novels and the films, you are now reduced to claiming it is based.... on a board game? How pathetic is that.

Anyway, if by board game you mean the 1979 one which was reissued in 2019, it seems so fundamentally different from "Spice Wars" there isn't any doubt the computer game is not an adaptation of the board game in any way, shape or form. Nor have the developers ever alluded to it, instead citing the original novel as their direct inspiration.

[Soho]

Publicado originalmente por Blackdragon:

The current model makes no sense in Dune universe

It makes sense to me

The game is set in the Dune Universe at the beginning of book #1

From there we have a few "what if" scenarios that diverge like possible futures seen by spice-induced precognition

What if the Fremen under the leadership of Liet Kynes (a woman! That's not in the book neener neener) seek to rule Dune themselves

What if the Smugglers led by a prominent smuggling family seek to go legit and make a name for themselves, even going so far as being recognized by the Landsraad, through ruling Dune themselves

What if House Harkonnen continued to plot to rule Dune themselves

What if House Corrino saw the importance of intervening on Dune to rule it themselves, and did so despite their severe limitations from the Landsraad

What if another great House (or two) steps up and enters the struggle to rule Dune themselves

That's really the basic idea, it makes total sense to me. One can say it is not exactly how the books go and one would be correct in saying that, but is it not true that one can be correct and still miss the point

[Blackdragon]

Publicado originalmente por Soho:

Publicado originalmente por Blackdragon:

The current model makes no sense in Dune universe

It makes sense to me

The game is set in the Dune Universe at the beginning of book #1

From there we have a few "what if" scenarios that diverge like possible futures seen by spice-induced precognition

What if the Fremen under the leadership of Liet Kynes (a woman! That's not in the book neener neener) seek to rule Dune themselves

1. The Fremen were not united and lacked the technology to actually challenge the governors of Arrakis (and by extension, the Imperium). If they attempted a mass revolt and somehow overthrew the standing governor, the entire Landsraad would arrive to restore control, as it happened in the original novel. The Fremen only make sense as an ally of one of the Great Houses, or an enemy that engages in asymmetric warfare, but not as a full-blown contestant for Arrakis. Most certainly they couldn't have votes in the Landsraad or become CHOAM directors.

2. Regarding Liet Kynes, the Fremen are consistently described as a patriarchal society, so a female leader makes no sense. Much as making the Baron Harkonnen a lithe female would make no sense (since there are narrative reasons for him being both male and fat in the books).

Publicado originalmente por Soho:

What if the Smugglers led by a prominent smuggling family seek to go legit and make a name for themselves, even going so far as being recognized by the Landsraad, through ruling Dune themselves

The Landsraad would never "recognise" a rag-tag group of outlaws as legitimate challengers for Arrakis, especially when there are Great Houses involved in the challenge. This goes completely against the Faufreluches system.

Publicado originalmente por Soho:

What if House Harkonnen continued to plot to rule Dune themselves

Harkonnen presence is the least debatable, as they were actual governors of Arrakis for many years. The issue is rather with how they are represented, lacking access to their most iconic combat units from the original novel, such as mobile heavy artillery and disguised Sardaukar. There are also minor things, like a complete misunderstanding of the Baron's strategy of governance (first "squeezing" with Beast Rabban, then bringing relief with the "noble" Feyd-Rautha). Everything is focused only on how oppressive and evil they are, without regard to the full depth of the Baron's wiles.

Publicado originalmente por Soho:

What if House Corrino saw the importance of intervening on Dune to rule it themselves, and did so despite their severe limitations from the Landsraad

Then the entire Landsraad would unite against the Emperor, as it is the main tenet of the Emperor's mandate that he does not openly interfere in conflicts among Great Houses, and certainly does not enter direct conflict with a Great House. It makes no sense for House Corrino to be openly waging battle on Arrakis against other Great Houses, and even less sense for Corrino being so weak, as the Emperor would have the resources of the entire Imperium (or at least the half loyal personally to him) at his disposal, not to mention his army of Sardaukar.

Publicado originalmente por Soho:

What if another great House (or two) steps up and enters the struggle to rule Dune themselves

That would be possible, e.g. as part of War of Assassins, but we have no other Great Houses in the game.

Publicado originalmente por Soho:

That's really the basic idea, it makes total sense to me. One can say it is not exactly how the books go and one would be correct in saying that, but is it not true that one can be correct and still miss the point

It's you who are missing the point. The problem is not that "it is not exactly how the books go"; the problem is that events simply CANNOT go that way in the Dune Universe, because they make no sense from the standpoint of its basic premises.

[Soho]

Yeah, that's what I said... I am missing the point

I think a lithe female Baron Harkonnen would be hot, they should add that

[Kōizumi Seishiro]

Considering frescoes discovered in the Harkonen no-chamber on Geidi prime many thousands years later, sure, why not ))) could totally be true.

[Soho]

They have a lithe female stealth melee unit... always got her knives out

[BUTTERSQUAT]

Publicado originalmente por JayTwoPointOh Shiro:

Publicado originalmente por Juuken:

Still not true.

Still very true, Ordos were mentioned briefly in the (now non-canon) Dune Encyclopedia and never again mentioned or referenced in any other media outside of Westwoods games, in which their coat of arms/house symbol (The Snake around a book) is actually that of House Wallach, another Encyclopedia House.

Ordos as you know them (their history, traits and role in the universe) were created entirely by Westwood studios, and considering Dune: Spice Wars bears no relation whatsoever to these games, outside of using the same IP for the setting, they will not be appearing in the game.

James

Thank you for participating in the conversation James. As someone who Played Age of Conan, Exiles and looking to buy Dune Spice Wars, I alway appreciate the company's input.

If one is going to work on the content in the books alone, there will be limited content available to expand the game with. I am quite sure you had to stretch the lore with the type of units or some other area in the game? Everyone always focusses on the books alone and though, I have to admit, it is one of the few universes where this happens in games. What I do feel would be great, is to create a free open history the player plays out after Paul Atreides and his liberation of Dune. It could even be 200 years later or something. Trying to get Dune back to the desert spice fields or something. This is completely unexplored.

What I did appreciate was the Ordos from Westwood. Canon or not, it was well executed in my opinion and seeing other great houses rise, even if you make a custom house with random traits would be something very new in the Dune universe. Like an expansion you can toggle when playing multiplayer with others. This way you get to be creative and give the fanboys their Dune from the books.

Anycase, thanks again for the info.

[anolisjd1990]

Publicado originalmente por JayTwoPointOh Shiro:

Publicado originalmente por Juuken:

Still not true.

Still very true, Ordos were mentioned briefly in the (now non-canon) Dune Encyclopedia and never again mentioned or referenced in any other media outside of Westwoods games, in which their coat of arms/house symbol (The Snake around a book) is actually that of House Wallach, another Encyclopedia House.

Ordos as you know them (their history, traits and role in the universe) were created entirely by Westwood studios, and considering Dune: Spice Wars bears no relation whatsoever to these games, outside of using the same IP for the setting, they will not be appearing in the game.

James

I love when devs answer back.