Sardaukars are weak.

[Rickey_BN]

"The Sardaukar is the elite military force of the Padishah Emperor"

In Dune: Spice Wars, the Sardaukar units are not felt by the elite military force of the Imperium. I haven't seen players prefer the Sardaukar more often than just an army of Conscript Infantry that will be much stronger than the elite military force of the Imperium.

At the same time, the Fedaykins show themselves perfectly. These soldiers are perfectly embodied in the game from a book. The Cerberus also feel like the baron's elite guards and even replace the regular infantry. Atreides Wardens are also good units that make other weak units more protected. Free Company is also a very strong unit that can easily kill toughest enemy and has stealth against ranged units.

Sardaukar are inferior in strength to all elite units in the game. You can't spam them like Harkonnens can spam Cerberus units, as their strength lies in the fact that they must finish off the enemy. But they cannot do this, as they are always the first to be killed. It's just not worth it.
Their power is unique, but very weak. They will definitely not be equal to the rest of the elite troops.

Do the developers plan to buff Sardaukars in any way? I really like House Corrino, but i'm frustrated with the current state of the Sardaukars. (In case if James or someone in Shiro dev team will see that)

[Blackdragon]

Publicado originalmente por Kōizumi Seishiro:

Just another internet person who thinks he had experienced epiphany and knows absolute truth. Obviously the guy has no idea about books or the game (last time he was claiming there were no attack ornis, now he wants them with shields )))) ) but good luck explaining this to him

You keep coming back to this thread even after having been absolutely thrashed on everything you've claimed, and failing to provide any arguments whatsoever. Yet here you are again, with another silly claim, putting your ignorance on broad display once more.

Ornithopters HAD SHIELDS in the original Dune novels. Here's the literal proof:

"An ornithopter replaced the carryall in the projection focus.“These ‘thopters are fairly conventional,” Hawat said. “Major modifications give them extended range. Extra care has been used in sealing essential areas against sand and dust. Only about one in thirty is shielded—possibly discarding the shield generator’s weight for greater range.”
“I don’t like this de-emphasis on shields,” the Duke muttered. And he thought: Is this the Harkonnen secret?
...
With a loud flapping, the spotter aircraft glided down to the sand on the other side of the crawler. The Duke’s own escort swooped in to land in line with him.Paul, looking out at the factory, saw how all the ’thopters were dwarfed by it—gnats beside a warrior beetle. “Gurney, you and Paul toss out that rear seat,” the Duke said. He manually cranked the wings out to three-quarters, set their angle, checked the jet pod controls. “Why the devil aren’t they coming out of that machine?”“They’re hoping the carryall will show up,” Kynes said. “They still have a few minutes.” He glanced off to the east.All turned to look the same direction, seeing no sign of the worm, but there was a heavy, charged feeling of anxiety in the air.The Duke took the microphone, punched for his command frequency,said: “Two of you toss out your shield generators. By the numbers. You can carry one more man that way. We’re not leaving any men for that monster.”

So, according to Frank Herbert's original novel:

1) both Atreides and Harkonnen ornithopters on Arrakis were equipped with shields;

2) removal of shields from some Harkonnen ornithopters surprised Duke Leto, who thought it might be a secret tactic of the Baron;

3) Atreides ornithopters used to evacuate the harvester crew in the desert had shield generators, and only discarded them to be able to lift more men - not because of any fear of the sandworm.

Therefore, flying units on Arrakis should be shielded. But they are not shielded in this game, as they are very easily shot down by projectile ranged weapons.

In the total absence of shields it makes absolutely no sense to have melee units and not to have artillery - which, according to the novel, went obsolete precisely because of the existence of shields.

Thus, in your laughable attempt at a comeback, you have only provided more evidence to support my point. Thanks, I guess ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Kōizumi Seishiro]

Every 30th orni you create as Atreides is shielded. L2P mate

[Fraggoth]

Publicado originalmente por Blackdragon:

1) both Atreides and Harkonnen ornithopters on Arrakis were equipped with shields;

2) removal of shields from some Harkonnen ornithopters surprised Duke Leto, who thought it might be a secret tactic of the Baron;

3) Atreides ornithopters used to evacuate the harvester crew in the desert had shield generators, and only discarded them to be able to lift more men - not because of any fear of the sandworm.

A couple things to clear up here, with some additional context. For starters, the Atreides inherited their fleet of ornithopters from the Harkonnen when the Emperor assigns the Duke to run the joint (which is actually part of a plan on Shaddam's part to get rid of Leto and the Atreides using the Harkonnen as the implement of destruction because the Duke and the Atreides are becoming a legitimate threat to his power, not the least reason of which is because the Atreides soldiers are getting well trained to the point that they pose a siginficant threat to the Sardaukaur [who are also not the Hot Stuff they used to be]). The Duke is rightly concerned about sabotage, but doesn't totally realize at this point how shields are a losing proposition on Arrakis in particular, but does start to get the idea later on as per the somewhat famous "Desert Power" quote elsewhere in the chapter you quoted from.

There are shield generators on that particular ornithopter largely because the Duke is on that ornithopter (as well as his son/heir, incidentally) and he and his staff want there to be extra precautions. The environment of Arrakis is anathema to shields; they are very difficult to maintain there, due to high-velocity sand, static, grit, dust, dryness, whatever - this accounts at least partially for why there are so few orni's with shields. Earlier in the same chapter you quoted from it's established that the Harkonnen did try to maintain a large number of shield generators in general, but it was prohibitively expensive.

Immediately before that is the bit where they talk about how shields make worms go into a frenzy:

Publicado originalmente por Dune, chapter 6:

"There're worms in the deep desert could take this entire factory in one gulp," Hawat said. "Up here closer to the Shield Wall where most of the spicing's done there are plenty of worms that could cripple this factory and devour it at their leisure."

"Why don't we shield them?" Paul asked.

"According to Idaho 's report," Hawat said, "shields are dangerous in the desert. A body-size shield will call every worm for hundreds of meters around. It appears to drive them into a killing frenzy. We've the Fremen word on this and no reason to doubt it. Idaho saw no evidence of shield equipment at the sietch."

The shield generators carried out by the personnel on that ornithopter aren't active, hence why they aren't afraid of the worm currently gunning for the harvester going berserk, as it would do around active shields. Again, you can use shields to your hearts content on the rocks but as soon as you go out onto the sand you are in deep trouble - hence why the fremen don't use them as it would be tantamount to suicide in their desert-borne existence, which is why they "were mostly amused by them."

Basically, while you COULD theoretically have a bunch of ornithopters shielded while airborne, the reality is that due to the environment of Arrakis they'd break down so much that it wouldn't be economically feasible, as the Harkonnen found out the hard way while they were administrators of Dune before the Atreides.

[Blackdragon]

Publicado originalmente por Kōizumi Seishiro:

Every 30th orni you create as Atreides is shielded. L2P mate

Can you not read at all? It's 1 in 30 Harkonnen ornithopters that were shielded, and the Duke considers it an unorthodox tactic. ALL of the ornithopters used by Atreides are shielded in the novel.

[Blackdragon]

Publicado originalmente por Fraggoth:

A couple things to clear up here, with some additional context. For starters, the Atreides inherited their fleet of ornithopters from the Harkonnen when the Emperor assigns the Duke to run the joint

That is incorrect. While the Atreides did receive the leftover Harkonnen thopters, they also brought their own to Arrakis:

"The Duke nodded. “I’ll fly 'my own ‘thopter.
...
A “thwok-thwok” of ornithopter wings sounded high to the right behindHawat’s group. The craft came over the cliff wall above them— an Atreides ‘thopter with Harkonnen battle colors splashed on it."

In fact, as Atreides suspect all Harkonnen equipment of being sabotaged, it makes sense for them to prefer their own stuff brought in from Caladan wherever possible.

Publicado originalmente por Fraggoth:

There are shield generators on that particular ornithopter largely because the Duke is on that ornithopter (as well as his son/heir, incidentally) and he and his staff want there to be extra precautions. The environment of Arrakis is anathema to shields; they are very difficult to maintain there, due to high-velocity sand, static, grit, dust, dryness, whatever - this accounts at least partially for why there are so few orni's with shields.

That is pure conjecture. In reality ornithopters in the Dune novel both carried shield generators, and used shields. Here's another quote in support of this:

"Hawat’s attention was caught by a flash of sun on metal to the south, a ‘thopter plummeting there in a power dive, wings folded flat against its sides, its jets a golden flare against the dark silvered gray of the sky. It plunged like an arrow toward the troop carrier which was unshielded because of the lasgun activity around it."

The troop carrier (a particularly large thopter) was unshielded because lasguns were being used by the Sardaukar, not because of worms or dust or whatever.

The exception was most of Harkonnen thopters that were specifically modified for range, including by ditching shield generators.

Publicado originalmente por Fraggoth:

Earlier in the same chapter you quoted from it's established that the Harkonnen did try to maintain a large number of shield generators in general, but it was prohibitively expensive.

Yes, thank you for yet another quote that proves my point:

“The Harkonnens certainly used plenty of shields here,” Hawat said.“They had repair depots in every garrison village, and their accounts show a heavy expenditure for shield replacements and parts.”

Very illustrative, indeed. And it was not "prohibitively" expensive, as the Harkonnen clearly maintained it successfully.

Publicado originalmente por Fraggoth:

Immediately before that is the bit where they talk about how shields make worms go into a frenzy:

Publicado originalmente por Dune, chapter 6:

"There're worms in the deep desert could take this entire factory in one gulp," Hawat said. "Up here closer to the Shield Wall where most of the spicing's done there are plenty of worms that could cripple this factory and devour it at their leisure."

"Why don't we shield them?" Paul asked.

"According to Idaho 's report," Hawat said, "shields are dangerous in the desert. A body-size shield will call every worm for hundreds of meters around. It appears to drive them into a killing frenzy. We've the Fremen word on this and no reason to doubt it. Idaho saw no evidence of shield equipment at the sietch."

This is all completely irrelevant with regard to ornithopters and other flying units, as they are inherently immune to worm attacks due to flight. Hence carryall are used to lift harvesters to safety in case of worm attack.

In any case, there's ample proof in the novel of Harkonnen, Atreides and Sardaukar all using shields in the desert, both on vehicles and on humans. So the fact that Fremen did not use shields (and likely would not have the resources to maintain them anyway) does not detract from this central point.

Hell, the entire economy of Arrakis hinges upon setting up huge noisy factories in the deep desert to harvest spice. Compared to the harvesters, a personal or even vehicular shield would likely have had minor impact on sandworm activity. And of course, ornithopters and other flying units would be immune to sandworm attacks while aloft.

Publicado originalmente por Fraggoth:

The shield generators carried out by the personnel on that ornithopter aren't active, hence why they aren't afraid of the worm currently gunning for the harvester going berserk, as it would do around active shields. Again, you can use shields to your hearts content on the rocks but as soon as you go out onto the sand you are in deep trouble - hence why the fremen don't use them as it would be tantamount to suicide in their desert-borne existence, which is why they "were mostly amused by them."

Again, this is irrelevant to ornithopters and other flying units.

But even with regard to ground units, the shield's effect on worms could have been translated in the game to shielded units attracting worms faster, and having the option to turn shields on or off. However, the point is that the game has NO shields whatsoever, in any shape or form. Which of course renders the entire Dune combat system inoperative, as in that case everybody would be using tanks, artillery, and heavy ranged weaponry instead of melee. Lasguns most importantly, as they were shown to be devastating when not countered by shields.

Publicado originalmente por Fraggoth:

Basically, while you COULD theoretically have a bunch of ornithopters shielded while airborne, the reality is that due to the environment of Arrakis they'd break down so much that it wouldn't be economically feasible, as the Harkonnen found out the hard way while they were administrators of Dune before the Atreides.

Again, this is pure conjecture on your behalf. In reality it was standard procedure for ornithopters to be shielded, but Harkonnen ones were specifically modified for maximum range, including by ditching the shield generators. This is plainly stated by Thufir Hawat to the Duke. Otherwise, as again stated by Thufir, "the Harkonnens certainly used plenty of shields" on Arrakis.