Fremen aircraft

[F[ai]l[m]]

I've wondered... is it really in the lore, that Fremen had aircraft/spaceships? I'm Ornithopter, yeah. But real ships like in the new content upgrade? I cannot recall anything like it, until the great crusade but those aren't technically "Fremen" ships ?

[War Dog]

Let me say this up front. I think the developers of this game are doing a really good job and I look forward to seeing this game as they continue to add more content to it.
But........
I have to agree with you. The fremen are the guys that are hiding in caves and doing hit and run attacks on villages and harvesters. Them having capital ships, the bumble bee of death. just doesn't seem right. I can see the up-armed ornithopters and maybe even a version of ornithopters that could carry a couple of troops (4 max maybe even less) but nothing on the scale of Kraken but no capital type ships. I've played a couple of games to test it out and I don't even know what to do with it. It is a very odd thing for them to have.
I thought the scrap system was a good idea though. That seems very fitting and is playable.

[Bambi]

GLA faction in C&C Generals is very comparable, they have no aircraft or heavy tanks but benefit from invisibility, fast movement on the map with tunnel networks, and scavenging supplies to make them stronger. Good implementation of assymetric guerilla faction that doesn't impede on the theme of technological or numerical superiority of USA and China.

[War Dog]

Could not have said it better myself but I do like my idea of the troop carry onithopters. I think it would fit in well for a force that is hiding on the planet waging a guerrilla war. Also bring back the mobile supply base.

[War Dog]

you may have a good idea that would be in line with the books and the force. What if they had underground tunnels that could be built between terrain (terrain dependent but nothing extensive as airfields. Might be anew idea for a thread of Fremen ideas

[F[ai]l[m]]

Originally posted by War Dog:

Let me say this up front. I think the developers of this game are doing a really good job and I look forward to seeing this game as they continue to add more content to it.
But........
I have to agree with you. The fremen are the guys that are hiding in caves and doing hit and run attacks on villages and harvesters. Them having capital ships, the bumble bee of death. just doesn't seem right. I can see the up-armed ornithopters and maybe even a version of ornithopters that could carry a couple of troops (4 max maybe even less) but nothing on the scale of Kraken but no capital type ships. I've played a couple of games to test it out and I don't even know what to do with it. It is a very odd thing for them to have.
I thought the scrap system was a good idea though. That seems very fitting and is playable.

I totally love the game and I agree with most decisions the Devs made. Ships for Fremen just feels weird and not really "in Lore". I guess it is about symmetry in balancing factions, but why not keep Fremen "the odd one out"? No ships, but nasty antiship units or other boni against ships?
I mean, why can't they have armed Ornithopters and a Shai-hulud as unit instead of the capital ship? Massive, stealth transport that kills like a worm attack and stays for a very short duration? Or keeps spawning Fremen warriors?
That might feel more "Fremen"-ish to me.
It's their "Sand" content from the "Air & Sand" update and it's Fremen's desert-ship

[Ocelot]

I was also hopeful they would include a mechanic for fremen that could down and salvage or convert other factions ships (rather than providing the fremen their own native carriers atleast) like the GLA in C&C Generals Zero Hour, or the monks from AoE2.

[Ocelot]

Definitely a Shai Hulud unit would have been a much better play I think rather than the carrier unit, but I suspect the above posters were right noting balance...Still I my heart longs for Shai-Hulud...and not a floating camel.

[Roadwraith]

Originally posted by Ocelot:

Definitely a Shai Hulud unit would have been a much better play I think rather than the carrier unit, but I suspect the above posters were right noting balance...Still I my heart longs for Shai-Hulud...and not a floating camel.

Completely agree. I think them having a Capital Class ship feels purely to 'balance' the new update as everyone else got one. Giving them access to a single 'Combat Worm' instead feels right and giving it transport of 1 or 2 troops is in line with both the lore and what the Devs are going for with the Fremen.

I suppose the issue is the current worms are timed 'delete buttons' so it needs to be powerful enough of a unit but not so powerful that it just wipes the floor with all other units. Maybe it has a cooldown as to how many units it can 'eat' in combat?

I would recommend the 're-purposing downed Capital Ships' functionality is given to the Smugglers. Feels more on brand for them.

[Ocelot]

Yup^^ or a limited duration as to how long it can remain on the surface as a combatant

[Roadwraith]

might be interesting if a downed capital ship becomes a 'Point of Interest' on the map. That can have different things done to it depending on the Faction.

Atreides - gain solari or guild favour

Smugglers - rebuilds the ship but under their control or guild favour

Harkonnen - gain intel or guild favour

Corino - gain spice or guild favour

Fremen - gain plascrete or scrap

[Lux Interior]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Fremen are not that low tech nor anti-tech to avoid having a repurposed onithopter. They lack industrial infrastructure to build such things, but they often adopt people with technological knowledge to operate and teach others how to operate salvaged machines and weapons. An armed ornithopter is justifiable as something like a technical, an imported Toyota truck with imported AA cannons, not something native to insurgent territories. A big ship is more complicated, could be some sort of ultimate project, like the terraforming of Arakis which they eventually succeed into doing in books (after centuries of becoming much techier).

[Roadwraith]

Originally posted by Lux Interior:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Fremen are not that low tech nor anti-tech to avoid having a repurposed onithopter. They lack industrial infrastructure to build such things, but they often adopt people with technological knowledge to operate and teach others how to operate salvaged machines and weapons. An armed ornithopter is justifiable as something like a technical, an imported Toyota truck with imported AA cannons, not something native to insurgent territories. A big ship is more complicated, could be some sort of ultimate project, like the terraforming of Arakis which they eventually succeed into doing in books (after centuries of becoming much techier).

I think that's what we're all saying. The repurposed orni is a good inclusion. It's the Altar massive juggernaut aircraft that we're a bit like 'meh' this isn't a particularly interesting addition or on brand for Fremen,

[F[ai]l[m]]

Yeah, the Fremen are these hiding natives with guerilla tactics because they

A: do not have access to factories to mass build compliacted tech
B: do not heavy factories to build massive, nor do they want them
C: salvage to surive in the harsh desert
D: use worms as transport, because no maintance and holy creature/symbol as well as low budget (grappling hooks and thumpers)

Repurposed Ornis are a perfect fit, theoretically for Smugglers as well as Fremen (they are somewhat similar)
It is just the massive gigantic aircraft that rubs me the wrong way for a secretive society that hides massive basins of water (for aforementioned terraforming) and actually hiding their numbers as well. A single capital ship wouldn't logically help Fremen either.
Whoever is in charge of Arrakis would simply get their fleet, bomb the ♥♥♥♥ out of the location the aircraft appeared as well as the capital ship. Rinse and repeat....

[Kid Gloves]

Replacing the Fremen altar with some kind of worm-related thing would make so much sense, and what the Fremen could really use is a mobile redeployment point. Even if it had to stay in the deep desert, it'd still be amazing.