Am I stupid or are Fremen the most immobile faction?

[Static VoiD]

While every other faction can build Airfields, Fremen (the lorewise most mobile faction on the planet by far) can only summon worms. Problem is, that the cooldown is insane. On higher difficulties you're basically stuck with fighting around very specific parts of the map, since if you're moving an army out of position, they'll never show up somewhere in time. So you have to keep your worm off CD to be able to react to Rebellions or smth.
Is there a way to "buy" a new thumper instead of waiting for it to regenerate or is there a 2nd option to travel between towns and am I just too stupid to find it? Because that cannot be how it's meant to be, or is it?

[Mossiveunit]

somewhat unrelated but i find the unit roster and cost for Freeman to be really bad compared to the other factions. Sure they're kind of strong but because of the espionage rebellion system your ability to respond to these insurrections means you need troops available across your held territories which makes those unit costs really harmful.

to me they feel like the worst faction to play.

[Katitoff]

Originally posted by MossiaH:

somewhat unrelated but i find the unit roster and cost for Freeman to be really bad compared to the other factions. Sure they're kind of strong but because of the espionage rebellion system your ability to respond to these insurrections means you need troops available across your held territories which makes those unit costs really harmful.

to me they feel like the worst faction to play.

Its not exactly hard for them to have a fedaykin every 3rd village.
You need to focus on military research anyway and they can solo 5 rebels without op support and however many you want them to at a time with op support.

And you don't to have very large imperium yourself, grab 3-4 spice fields and maybe whatever territory connecting them and you're set. Just get enough to support maxed out army.

[Will]

Kulon caravan makes the fremen pretty awesome. You can wonder round the desert all day making raids and then disappear into the sand.

[Godefroy de Outremere]

Originally posted by Katitoff:

Originally posted by MossiaH:

somewhat unrelated but i find the unit roster and cost for Freeman to be really bad compared to the other factions. Sure they're kind of strong but because of the espionage rebellion system your ability to respond to these insurrections means you need troops available across your held territories which makes those unit costs really harmful.

to me they feel like the worst faction to play.

Its not exactly hard for them to have a fedaykin every 3rd village.
You need to focus on military research anyway and they can solo 5 rebels without op support and however many you want them to at a time with op support.

And you don't to have very large imperium yourself, grab 3-4 spice fields and maybe whatever territory connecting them and you're set. Just get enough to support maxed out army.

4 spice field I would consider a really big territory. Having Fadaykings in every 3rd settlement maybe a bit too much considering they cost 6 cp, which will reduce your standing army.

If they patch the broken bazaar giving 40% tech research time increase to all 3 branches then I don't think they are even that great.

I guess devs need to increase cp of mercs and landsraad guards, a bit, cause they are much superior to fremen units.

[Katitoff]

I can't see how mercs are superior to fedaykin, again, they do not vet, have hefty solari upkeep and their bonus kicks in when something dies, while fedaykins bonus kicks in the moment they start being engaged.

Plus the fact they are unable to vet.

[Godefroy de Outremere]

well because the cost 2 cp and you can field 3 of them for one fedaykin?

Or you can field 2 landsraad guard for one fedaykin and they would eat him for breakfest.

[Katitoff]

Originally posted by Coeur de Lion:

well because the cost 2 cp and you can field 3 of them for one fedaykin?

Or you can field 2 landsraad guard for one fedaykin and they would eat him for breakfest.

They will also get clapped hard if you try to use a single one against rebellion and upkpeep of multiple will chew through your solari supply fast, where fedaykin will triumph.

Landsradd is also better used as part of your main force to tank, specifically because they are expendable with enough influence income. Tho its unlikely you'll get access to them as Fremen.

[Godefroy de Outremere]

Originally posted by Katitoff:

Originally posted by Coeur de Lion:

well because the cost 2 cp and you can field 3 of them for one fedaykin?

Or you can field 2 landsraad guard for one fedaykin and they would eat him for breakfest.

They will also get clapped hard if you try to use a single one against rebellion and upkpeep of multiple will chew through your solari supply fast, where fedaykin will triumph.

Landsradd is also better used as part of your main force to tank, specifically because they are expendable with enough influence income. Tho its unlikely you'll get access to them as Fremen.

I am not saying that mercs are better for rebellions, I am saying that emrcs ar emuch better overall then fedaykins as a main battle unit, becaus ethey cost no manpower and only 2 cp. And manpower is so much more valuble in the endgame then solari,w hich is reiously not a problem unless you have no eco.

So 6 cp of Landsraad guard or mercs will just chew through that fedaykin costing the same amount of cp.

Even Atreides full buffed Troopers are imo more cost effective than fadaykin as they can get ludircous amounts of power for 3 cp, I would argue 2 fully buffed troopers will demolish one fedaykin. And 2 troopers are 6 cp.

[Katitoff]

But what you've said doesn't really mean much to what I've said.
Fremen don't have very mobile army within their own territories, which means they need troops stationed in strategic villages to react to rebellions and raids.
Fedyakin is the best troop for it.
It couldn't be any less relevant how Mercs or Landsraad guard perform on the frontline of main army, because you're not going to be running in circles with your main army defending rebellions, it is inefficient, just like using guards and mercs to defend in that manner.

[Novia]

Whole purpose of the Fremen's playstyle is to stay on the offensive, you want to minimise your downtime whenever possible; multiple rebellions is always painful to deal with, but this will be nothing compared to the damage your forces will inflict the more they snowball.

I'd argue that their main issue is getting that snowball going, instead of mobility, they don't want massive tracts of land to defend against every incursion. What's more is their roster, while expensive, if supported correctly actually are extremely dangerous opponents, especially against opponents with armor of which there many.

Of all the factions, the Fremen probably have the easiest time cutting through enemy strongholds. and bypassing defensive lines with quick surgical strikes, only limited by their thumper charges.

In PvP I'd expect the Fremen to suffer greatly if caught on the defence, but other faction players would do well to likewise prepare their airfields and spice operations well against surprise attacks, as they can chew through militia, turrets, and armored opponents swiftly with the right compositions, heck a great many of them can be cloaked, making it hard to gauge how strong a force people are looking at. Fully expect to see Fremen players baiting with false attacks when the time comes.

So basically, stay aggressive, invest in military and economic techs, as well as bank enough intel to keep your best support operations going and you will barely even need to worry about spice tax or raids while you cripple your opponents. And above all else, demolish every airfield you see when you strike, let the offworlders seethe!

[Godefroy de Outremere]

Well I don't know if some of the people here forgot that thopthers are an easy tool to reveal concealed units. And what akes fremen so especially good against armor? Every faction do have armor breaking units.

[Novia]

Mass skirmishers mostly, with heavy micro depending on councillor choices, the AoE damage they inflict is nothing to scoff at, even if they aren't the strongest unit out there. It can be countered, smugglers probably will have the best odds of that in terms of cost effectiveness, but given how relatively cheap they are to field en masse by the time they're ready to go for a domination victory, a few losses is a small price to pay, if even that depending on the micro.

Overall they're not unique in the approach, just probably the ones you'll see pulling it off before the others get the chance, simply due to their strong economic advantage, and the speed in which they can strike enemy fortifications before a response arrives.

And yes, ornithopters are a good way to see what's coming, probably intended. Overall Fremen when you think about it are all about gambling big, to win big. If they sit on their laurels, they're likely to get focused down.

[Godefroy de Outremere]

Originally posted by Novia:

Mass skirmishers mostly, with heavy micro depending on councillor choices, the AoE damage they inflict is nothing to scoff at, even if they aren't the strongest unit out there. It can be countered, smugglers probably will have the best odds of that in terms of cost effectiveness, but given how relatively cheap they are to field en masse by the time they're ready to go for a domination victory, a few losses is a small price to pay, if even that depending on the micro.

Overall they're not unique in the approach, just probably the ones you'll see pulling it off before the others get the chance, simply due to their strong economic advantage, and the speed in which they can strike enemy fortifications before a response arrives.

And yes, ornithopters are a good way to see what's coming, probably intended. Overall Fremen when you think about it are all about gambling big, to win big. If they sit on their laurels, they're likely to get focused down.

I don't find skirmishers that strong at all, very squishy low range, they will get demolished by any melee ranged force combined. Yes they do 30% more to armored, but their base power is on the lower side. 300 Hp 1 armor and 3 cp to field. Very average unit thb in my opinion.

[wmslone]

I'd actually be fine with nerfing some of the Fremen units, they can get to the point of being superfluously powerful. I just wish they had a more viable transportation network. I always play on large maps and even with upgraded sandworm range it still takes 2 thumpers to cross from one side of the map to the other, whereas for any other faction they can travel anywhere on the map for just the cost of solari. It's much quicker and more flexible having airfields than sandworms, and the cost is really irrelevant at a certain point. It makes playing defensively damn near impossible as Fremen.
All of my wins with Fremen have been from playing hyper aggressively and just focusing down enemy hq's. It's winnable but I have to say not terribly fun. I enjoy those long games of spreading out across the map and fighting off constant attacks while slowly conquering the map, but with Fremen that playstyle is a death trap due to how easily they can be out maneuvered on large maps. If you're not attacking you're probably dying. Just my take and some people might like this limitation in playstyle, for me though I find the Fremen the least fun to play with because of their limited transport ability, which sucks because they're otherwise probably the coolest faction.

[glythe]

Originally posted by Coeur de Lion:

I don't find skirmishers that strong at all, very squishy low range, they will get demolished by any melee ranged force combined. Yes they do 30% more to armored, but their base power is on the lower side. 300 Hp 1 armor and 3 cp to field. Very average unit thb in my opinion.

Your experiences in the game are against an AI that by the developer's own admission : does not micro his troops (yet).

A screwdriver makes for a poor hammer but you can make it work if you use it with enough force. That is literally what the AI is doing now.

Range troops can harass melee units and make fights really miserable. If you get hit by 4 units you might lose 2-4 points of armor before ever getting into a fight. Units that go from 3 armor to suddenly 0 armor get absolutely stomped on by an otherwise relatively equal melee unit.